Old Kuba Bushong Dagger For Comment

Lew · 13th April 2005, 03:25 AM

Hi Guys

This just arrived today! Tim,Freddy,Derek and Flavio your opinions please.

Thanks

Lew

Tim Simmons · 13th April 2005, 07:34 AM

Perfect

Flavio · 13th April 2005, 11:06 PM

Hello Lew,
i have a very similar example of ikula, with handle without inlaid: in my opinion is very elegant

.
Now my idea is that this kind of ikula aren't so old: i have a picture of '70 (maybe 1974) of a kuba man with an ikula without handle decorated.
Of course the knife (but maybe is better dagger) could be older. Any opinion is welcome.

Lew · 14th April 2005, 02:14 AM

Hi Flavio

I agree with you that the undecorated type dagger is more elegant as for the general age I think they are older than 1970s. The patina on both look too deep to have only been made 30 years ago. My guess is 1930s-40s possibly a little earlier. The Warrior in the photo looks to be around 40 years old and the dagger could have been made for him some 20 years earlier when he acsended to manhood that would make his dagger 1950s era. Who knows if these daggers were handed down as family heirlooms?

Lew

Flavio · 14th April 2005, 11:12 PM

Hi Lew, I think that what you say is ok. The age of undecoreted ikula is old like the ones with an inlaid handle.
Maybe, but this is a big interrogative point, the ikulas with copper and brass inlaid are older.
Here in Italy i see in a museum (Prehistoric and Ethnographic Museum of "Luigi Pigorini" in Rome) two ikulas dated to the middle '800 with copper and brass inlaid. Maybe the ikula with zinc or aluminum inlaid are recent.
I haven't sure news if the weapons were handed down as family heirlooms, but i think that it could be possible. Among the Papua (New Guinea) or the Maori, in the early 1900, the stone axe were passed from father to son as a great simbol of power.

Conogre · 16th April 2005, 05:57 AM

Nice Ikul Lew and Flavio....when I first started collecting an African specialist took me under his wing, with the Ikula being by far his preferred weapon style (sorry for the reminiscing) so they've made an impression on me ever since, yet it's one piece I've never been fortunate enough to win or possess..
Very elegant weapons that apparently have a high place in the rank/prestige and ceremonial categories as well.
(A three-fer?**grin**)
Mike

Tim Simmons · 16th April 2005, 05:57 PM

On mine the decoration is like the metal style,only carved in the wood.The detail picture just about shows so.Tim

Freddy · 16th April 2005, 07:27 PM

The Kuba knives are indeed beautiful.

Here's a wooden version :

Flavio · 16th April 2005, 10:47 PM

Hello Freddy, the wooden ikula is very beautiful!! So we can also continue with the "classic" ikula with handle inlaid?? Sure!!

.
If you look at the picture with a close up of the head of the handle you can see a decoration that remembers another decoration known as "Node of Salomon" that is quite frequent also on the Songye sword, knife and axe. I think that is rather interesting to notice as a symbol of Christian - Hebrew type is used also in groups with religious beliefs so different. What do you think about this?

13th April 2005, 03:25 AM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Old Kuba Bushong Dagger For Comment Hi Guys This just arrived today! Tim,Freddy,Derek and Flavio your opinions please. Thanks Lew Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 13th April 2005 at 04:24 AM.

13th April 2005, 11:06 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Lew, i have a very similar example of ikula, with handle without inlaid: in my opinion is very elegant . Now my idea is that this kind of ikula aren't so old: i have a picture of '70 (maybe 1974) of a kuba man with an ikula without handle decorated. Of course the knife (but maybe is better dagger) could be older. Any opinion is welcome. Attached Images

16th April 2005, 05:57 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	On mine the decoration is like the metal style,only carved in the wood.The detail picture just about shows so.Tim Attached Images

16th April 2005, 10:47 PM	#9
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Freddy, the wooden ikula is very beautiful!! So we can also continue with the "classic" ikula with handle inlaid?? Sure!! . If you look at the picture with a close up of the head of the handle you can see a decoration that remembers another decoration known as "Node of Salomon" that is quite frequent also on the Songye sword, knife and axe. I think that is rather interesting to notice as a symbol of Christian - Hebrew type is used also in groups with religious beliefs so different. What do you think about this? Attached Images

13th April 2005, 07:34 AM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Perfect

14th April 2005, 02:14 AM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Flavio I agree with you that the undecorated type dagger is more elegant as for the general age I think they are older than 1970s. The patina on both look too deep to have only been made 30 years ago. My guess is 1930s-40s possibly a little earlier. The Warrior in the photo looks to be around 40 years old and the dagger could have been made for him some 20 years earlier when he acsended to manhood that would make his dagger 1950s era. Who knows if these daggers were handed down as family heirlooms? Lew

14th April 2005, 11:12 PM	#5
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Lew, I think that what you say is ok. The age of undecoreted ikula is old like the ones with an inlaid handle. Maybe, but this is a big interrogative point, the ikulas with copper and brass inlaid are older. Here in Italy i see in a museum (Prehistoric and Ethnographic Museum of "Luigi Pigorini" in Rome) two ikulas dated to the middle '800 with copper and brass inlaid. Maybe the ikula with zinc or aluminum inlaid are recent. I haven't sure news if the weapons were handed down as family heirlooms, but i think that it could be possible. Among the Papua (New Guinea) or the Maori, in the early 1900, the stone axe were passed from father to son as a great simbol of power.

16th April 2005, 05:57 AM	#6
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Nice Ikul Lew and Flavio....when I first started collecting an African specialist took me under his wing, with the Ikula being by far his preferred weapon style (sorry for the reminiscing) so they've made an impression on me ever since, yet it's one piece I've never been fortunate enough to win or possess.. Very elegant weapons that apparently have a high place in the rank/prestige and ceremonial categories as well. (A three-fer?grin) Mike

16th April 2005, 07:27 PM	#8
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	The Kuba knives are indeed beautiful. Here's a wooden version :