French dagger for comment

Sajen · 18th November 2018, 02:51 PM

Hello dear members,

have recently purchased this French dagger, blade, guard and scabbard is very similar to the so called "dague de pute" but the handle is very similar to the German "nicker" daggers, a "coup de grace". So what it is? A "dague de pute" or a hunting dagger?
It is 24 cm long inside the scabbard and only a little bit shorter without with a blade from 11,5 cm. The weight is 128 gram. The last picture show it together with one of my Corsican Vendetta daggers.
A similar piece was once shown here but with missing ferrule and guard, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=french+dagger
All comments are very welcome!

fernando · 18th November 2018, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

... blade, guard and scabbard is very similar to the so called "dague de pute" ...

Funny; i would never take it that this setup resembles those called dagues de pute

.

Sajen · 18th November 2018, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Funny; i would never take it that this setup resembles those called dagues de pute

.

Really not Fernando? Please compare scabbard style, guard, ferrule and cross section of this dagger from the same seller, sadly I wasn't able to win this one also.

Regards,
Detlef

fernando · 18th November 2018, 06:57 PM

Well Detlef, i will not be having a definite position on this one (as in many others), neither i guess that there is a definite typology of the dague de pute (whore's dagger); starting by this being a French name attribution for these things, whereas i realize women of other countries also resourced this concealed weapon, namely in Far West saloons; a weapon small enough to hide inside the bodice or tied to the leg under the dress ... or even inside the boot.
While i will not contest however that there (maybe) is a determined pattern, namely inspired by the French, i will not reject that a dague de pute is what we 'intend' to be, as long as its dimensions and conditioned approach do serve the purpose, so to say.
But, a curved blade version, that's news for me. Still i am playing by ear, hence my assessment not being a trusty one..

.

Sajen · 18th November 2018, 09:33 PM

Hello Fernando,

I am not sure as well, I've seen a few in the same style like the one in question, all with the same parameters and I've noticed that there are a lot of similarity with the so called (frensh) dagues de pute, mainly the scabbard style so I think that they are from the same time frame and maybe the same workshop. I think that we only can guess if this daggers with curved blade are dagues de pute or coupe de grace like the german nickers. The reason why I ask in my initial post.

Regards,
Detlef

Helleri · 18th November 2018, 09:45 PM

I find it interesting that it has such curvature as if for cutting while having a foiled blade. Usually trifoil or quatrefoil blade is so to stiffen the blade against flexing and reinforce the tip. As in almost exclusively thrust oriented. Such blades are typically strait, with the tip riding the center line. The design of this seems self defeating. It wouldn't be as good of a Stabby McStaberson as it could be were the blade and handle strait. But due to the foils, Even with a sharp edge, it couldn't cut very deeply either.

18th November 2018, 02:51 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,491	French dagger for comment Hello dear members, have recently purchased this French dagger, blade, guard and scabbard is very similar to the so called "dague de pute" but the handle is very similar to the German "nicker" daggers, a "coup de grace". So what it is? A "dague de pute" or a hunting dagger? It is 24 cm long inside the scabbard and only a little bit shorter without with a blade from 11,5 cm. The weight is 128 gram. The last picture show it together with one of my Corsican Vendetta daggers. A similar piece was once shown here but with missing ferrule and guard, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=french+dagger All comments are very welcome! Attached Images

18th November 2018, 06:57 PM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Well Detlef, i will not be having a definite position on this one (as in many others), neither i guess that there is a definite typology of the dague de pute (whore's dagger); starting by this being a French name attribution for these things, whereas i realize women of other countries also resourced this concealed weapon, namely in Far West saloons; a weapon small enough to hide inside the bodice or tied to the leg under the dress ... or even inside the boot. While i will not contest however that there (maybe) is a determined pattern, namely inspired by the French, i will not reject that a dague de pute is what we 'intend' to be, as long as its dimensions and conditioned approach do serve the purpose, so to say. But, a curved blade version, that's news for me. Still i am playing by ear, hence my assessment not being a trusty one.. . Attached Images

18th November 2018, 09:33 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,491	Hello Fernando, I am not sure as well, I've seen a few in the same style like the one in question, all with the same parameters and I've noticed that there are a lot of similarity with the so called (frensh) dagues de pute, mainly the scabbard style so I think that they are from the same time frame and maybe the same workshop. I think that we only can guess if this daggers with curved blade are dagues de pute or coupe de grace like the german nickers. The reason why I ask in my initial post. Regards, Detlef

18th November 2018, 09:45 PM	#6
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Boulder Creek, CA. Posts: 202	I find it interesting that it has such curvature as if for cutting while having a foiled blade. Usually trifoil or quatrefoil blade is so to stiffen the blade against flexing and reinforce the tip. As in almost exclusively thrust oriented. Such blades are typically strait, with the tip riding the center line. The design of this seems self defeating. It wouldn't be as good of a Stabby McStaberson as it could be were the blade and handle strait. But due to the foils, Even with a sharp edge, it couldn't cut very deeply either.