Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 16th May 2017, 04:07 AM   #1
BANDOOK
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 624
Default SOUTH INDIAN PISTOL

JUST BOUGHT THIS HOLSTER PISTOL CIRCA MID 1800,SUCH PISTOLS WERE COMMON TO MYSORE REGION OF KARNATAKA FROM WHERE TIPPU SULTAN WAS BASED AND STARTED MANY GUN FACTORYS FOR HIS ARMY,THESE COME UP IN AUCTIONS IN THE U.K ,BUT SELDOM IN THIS PART OF THE WORLD,SO WAS HAPPY TO ACQUIRE ONE FOR MY COLLECTION.THE PISTOL IS QUIET COMPLETE BUT MISSING THE TRIGGER GUARD.
HAVE NOT SEEN MUCH OF THESE GUNS DISCUSSED IN THE FORUM SO WOULD APPRECIATE MORE INFORMATION FOR OUR MEMBERS
KIND REGARDS RAJESH
Attached Images
            
BANDOOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2017, 07:19 AM   #2
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
Default

Hi Rajesh,

Your Indian pistol is really beautifull and massive.
This model is well known and discussed by Elgood.
I think there is one like that in Tirri too.
I would like to have some information about the nice and strange barrel...

Best,
Kubur
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2017, 12:28 PM   #3
BANDOOK
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 624
Default

THANKS KUBUR
MY FRIEND RANJEET OF AAKAL ARMS SAID THAT THESE ARE ALWAYS REFFERED AS SOUTH INDIAN BUT NOT MUCH HAS BEEN RESEARCHED SAYING ABOUT THEM,LETS WAIT WHAT OTHERS HAVE TO SAY
KIND REGARDS
RAJESH
BANDOOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2017, 01:22 PM   #4
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BANDOOK
THANKS KUBUR
MY FRIEND RANJEET OF AAKAL ARMS SAID THAT THESE ARE ALWAYS REFFERED AS SOUTH INDIAN BUT NOT MUCH HAS BEEN RESEARCHED SAYING ABOUT THEM,LETS WAIT WHAT OTHERS HAVE TO SAY
KIND REGARDS
RAJESH
I might be wrong but the muzzle looks like some Omani abu fillia barrels.
And Elgood said that they were Persians.
I won't be surprised if someone says that your barrel is Persian...
Again I don't think that the trigger guard is missing, lot of these pistols had no trigger guards.

Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2017, 11:32 AM   #5
BANDOOK
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 624
Default

Thanks Kubur you are right ,good observation the barrel looks like a Omani AF ,As I have not seen such examples posted in the forum so would be good to know more about these pistols,regards Rajesh
BANDOOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2017, 09:06 PM   #6
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,621
Default

Hi Bandook.

Now that's an interesting pistol. Here in the States you don't often see PISTOLS with Indian origin. The percussion lock looks like it was copied from the British Enfield pattern, but maybe a bit smaller for pistol size. Same with the percussion bolster. So both those items might also be clues to Indian origin. The barrel with multiple flutes at the muzzle is really neat. Don't believe I've seen another like it.
As Kubur mentions, the gun could very well have been made without a trigger guard. If there is no evidence that a guard was ever installed, then this is liely the case.
Again, a really interesting pistol you don't often see. Congratulations.

Rick
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2017, 10:21 PM   #7
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
Default

Normaly these guns have a kind of blunderbluss muzzle...
Is it possible that the barrel was a replacement?
And Rick, what do you think about the barrel, is it Indian, or something else (Persian)?
Thanks
Attached Images
  
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2017, 08:57 AM   #8
BANDOOK
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 624
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickystl
Hi Bandook.

Now that's an interesting pistol. Here in the States you don't often see PISTOLS with Indian origin. The percussion lock looks like it was copied from the British Enfield pattern, but maybe a bit smaller for pistol size. Same with the percussion bolster. So both those items might also be clues to Indian origin. The barrel with multiple flutes at the muzzle is really neat. Don't believe I've seen another like it.
As Kubur mentions, the gun could very well have been made without a trigger guard. If there is no evidence that a guard was ever installed, then this is liely the case.
Again, a really interesting pistol you don't often see. Congratulations.

Rick
THANKS RICK,AN INDIAN PISTOL WAS MISSING IN MY COLLECTION SO WAS A GOOD ADDITION
THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTS
REGARDS RAJESH
BANDOOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2017, 09:01 AM   #9
BANDOOK
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 624
Default

AM POSTING ANOTHER PICTURE OF A INDIAN PISTOL WITH PERCUSSION CAP AND HAMMER ON THE SAME LINES
Attached Images
  
BANDOOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2017, 10:32 AM   #10
Pukka Bundook
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 803
Default

Interesting pistol in the O.P!

When I first saw it, I too thought the barrel came from an Omani/Persian long arm. It appears narrower at the breech, so believe it is a cut -down barrel re-used.
I recently found examples of these A-F barrels, but stocked up in Northern India, (Afghan style mostly, ) so whether they are Persian, or came from other parts of India I do not know. Trade could well account for them being up North.
Pukka Bundook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2017, 10:35 AM   #11
BANDOOK
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 624
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook
Interesting pistol in the O.P!

When I first saw it, I too thought the barrel came from an Omani/Persian long arm. It appears narrower at the breech, so believe it is a cut -down barrel re-used.
I recently found examples of these A-F barrels, but stocked up in Northern India, (Afghan style mostly, ) so whether they are Persian, or came from other parts of India I do not know. Trade could well account for them being up North.
Thanks Pukka Bundook
BANDOOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2017, 04:51 PM   #12
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Normaly these guns have a kind of blunderbluss muzzle...
Is it possible that the barrel was a replacement?
And Rick, what do you think about the barrel, is it Indian, or something else (Persian)?
Thanks
Hi Kubur.

I agree with Pukka here. It looks like a section of barrel that was cut short from both the breech and muzzle ends, and then re-breached. Curious the long breech plug tang. Sort of like a Caucassian pistol.
Of course we know in this area of the world how often barrels, locks, etc. were recycled to make anything that would shoot. You never see any two alike. But you can often trace the origins from the decoration. But not always. It seems some have a confluence of cultures in it's decoration. Probably due to trade and other influences.

Rick
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2018, 04:19 PM   #13
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,621
Default

BUMP !!!!

I was going to start a new Thread, but then remembered fellow Forum member, Bandook had started this Thread on South Indian pistols. So I used the Search function which brought up his original post from this month - a year ago. So, I thought I would just continue the conversation.

Here is a recent aquisition I bought from Auctions Imperial about 3/4 auctions ago. Notice how similar this pistol looks to the one Kubur posted above from Oriental Arms. Even the lock.
When I received the pistol there were only two issues (that I knew beforehand)
1. LOCK: The top screw was slightly bent, and the frizzen was not quite flush while covering the pan. So the Locksmith made the fixes and tuned the lock. It now works/sparks great.
2. STOCK: The front ramrod pipe was missing as well as the ramrod. So I had a new pipe made to match the rear. It turned out to be an almost dead-ringer to the rear pipe. Had a new iron and wood rod made to match.

So this small bit of restoration has the pistol looking much better now. Thanks for looking. Picture heavy as usual. LOL

Rick
Attached Images
      
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2018, 04:23 PM   #14
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,621
Default

MORE PICS........Check out how close the new front ramrod pipe matches the original rear pipe.
Attached Images
      
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2018, 04:25 PM   #15
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,621
Default

ONE MORE OF THE NEW RAMRODS......It's a "false" rod and doesn't travel the length of the barrel due to the over-sized locks used in these pistols.
Attached Images
 
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2018, 07:52 AM   #16
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,145
Default

Congrats Rick!
Very nice pistol
The butt is unusual for this kind of pistol, do you think its a late addition?
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2018, 02:45 PM   #17
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Congrats Rick!
Very nice pistol
The butt is unusual for this kind of pistol, do you think its a late addition?
Hi Kubur

Thanks for your comments. The gunsmith did a good job. Turned out well.

The butt cap does look a bit plain for these pistols. If it was a replacement, it would have been done back in the period. It's not a casting. It's hand made and heavy. Would work well for a dual purpose club. LOL The patina matches the rest of the brass mounts. There is a tiny, period wood repair on the inside of the grip near the butt cap that was well executed. Maybe the cap was removed/replaced during the repair (?) But the butt cap is old, and was well fitted. So I believe it is legit.

Rick
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2018, 04:20 AM   #18
BANDOOK
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 624
Default

HELLO RICK
YES,THIS PISTOL YOU HAVE POSTED IS SIMILAR TO MINE,BUT WITH A FEW DIFFERNCES ESPECIALLY THE BALL BUTT WHICH ONE SEES IN CAUCASIAN PISTOLS
GOOD FIND
REGARDS
RAJESH
BANDOOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.