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Old 25th March 2016, 06:54 AM   #1
estcrh
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Default Yatagan help

The blade of this yatagan appears to be mono steel but someone put a lot of work into the scabbard decorations. I was hoping to find out some information as to what region this may have come from.The hilt looks to be neillo, there is some kind of script on the spine and scabbard.
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Old 25th March 2016, 04:34 PM   #2
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Nice yataghan. I believe these to be from Greece, and I understand that this is still a somewhat generic description. In Elgood's book on Balkan arms there are multiple examples, some with provenance attributed to Greek freedom fighters. Astvatsaturian had assigned those to Eastern Anatolia, based on the niello decoration, but she herself would admit that these were just guesses at the time she wrote her book. We know that niello decoration was used in the Balkans for decoration, and since Epirus yataghans seem to have more pronounced ears, I would guess that this type should be from further South.

Sincerely,
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Old 25th March 2016, 08:30 PM   #3
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Nice piece estcrh, I know hardly anything about these weapons except that they combine beauty with fit for purpose. From my limited research I find it difficult to determine the origin but from the hilt design I would say it was from Greece. Wish it was mine.
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Old 25th March 2016, 11:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVV
Nice yataghan. I believe these to be from Greece, and I understand that this is still a somewhat generic description. In Elgood's book on Balkan arms there are multiple examples, some with provenance attributed to Greek freedom fighters. Astvatsaturian had assigned those to Eastern Anatolia, based on the niello decoration, but she herself would admit that these were just guesses at the time she wrote her book. We know that niello decoration was used in the Balkans for decoration, and since Epirus yataghans seem to have more pronounced ears, I would guess that this type should be from further South.

Sincerely,
Teodor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguel
Nice piece estcrh, I know hardly anything about these weapons except that they combine beauty with fit for purpose. From my limited research I find it difficult to determine the origin but from the hilt design I would say it was from Greece. Wish it was mine.
Miguel



Teodor and Miquel, thanks for your input, I found a similar yatagan on Stefans site, same typs of inscription on the spine as well. I have not seen the type of metal work design that is on the scabbard before, I am leaning towards the scabbard metal being newer than the yatagan and hilt but the leather part of the scabbard along with the metal spiral stitching seems older. If anyone thinks they recoginze the designs or script as being from a particular region make a guess, thanks.


Quote:
Yataghan sword from Ottoman Greece, probably Epirus region. The yatagan sword itself with a silver hilt comprised of panels of silver finely engraved with decoration and niello, the upper edge (spine) of the blade applied with silver and with a long inscription in arabic calligraphy inlaid with niello. Circa 1800.
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Old 26th March 2016, 12:14 AM   #5
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Hi Guys,
I agree for the yatagan but the scabbard is very interesting.
The flowers in frise are common to Ottoman Turkish scabbards.
But the birds, animals and inscriptions look Persian to me.
Is it possible that someone can translate these inscriptions?
It could be a cross cultural object...
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Old 27th March 2016, 12:04 AM   #6
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Обычно на ятаганах этого типа в надписи имена семи отроков эфесских.

Usually this type of yatagan in writing the names of the seven youths of Ephesus.

Last edited by Saracen : 27th March 2016 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 27th March 2016, 02:28 AM   #7
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Here is another similar "Greek" yatagan.
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Old 4th April 2016, 09:21 AM   #8
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Hi,
Here the same kind of scabbard
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2595
maybe i was wrong your scabbard is Turkish and not Persian...
Sorry!!
Best,
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Old 4th April 2016, 03:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Hi,
Here the same kind of scabbard
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2595
maybe i was wrong your scabbard is Turkish and not Persian...
Sorry!!
Best,
Kubur


i'm sorry I wanted to say SYRIAN (not Turkish)
but the yataghan is Greek of course
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Old 4th April 2016, 09:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
i'm sorry I wanted to say SYRIAN (not Turkish)
but the yataghan is Greek of course
Kuber, thanks for digging this up. The style of the pala scabbard from the link you posted and the yatagan scabbard being discussed are very similar, on the pictures posted below you will notice the scabbard tip with has a small bridge to protect the chape. Both the pala and yatagan chapes have this feature as well as another pala which is posted below as well. So were Syrian artists actively doing this type of work on Ottoman sword scabbards without being credited for it?
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Old 4th April 2016, 09:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estcrh
you will notice the scabbard tip with has a small bridge to protect the chape. Both the pala and yatagan chapes have this feature as well as another pala which is posted below as well.


This feature is common to most of the Turkish scabbards, I have the same on an Ottoman/ Turkish scabbard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by estcrh
So were Syrian artists actively doing this type of work on Ottoman sword scabbards without being credited for it?


I don't know the style is very close to some Qajar works, but its clearly something from the East, Ottoman Syrian maybe... There is another example in the very bad book "Antique swords and daggers" (only useful for photographs).

A last point, finally I do not think that your yatagan is Greek. Please, look at Elgood, the Greek style is very particular. Your yatagan should be Balkans or even Turkish, but not Greek.
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