Patrem keris for comment

Lew · 14th December 2007, 06:08 AM

Hi All

Just won this little gem today. Can you let me know if you think it's a good one? I think it may need a mendak?

Lew

David · 14th December 2007, 02:38 PM

Lew, it looks like a peninsula piece to me so i'm sure that Shahrial or Kai Wee can put a better ID on it for you. The pics aren't too good, but it looks well crafted to me. Certainly worth more than you paid for it.
And what i think you need is a pendokok, not a mendak. Whatever is there in between the hilt and blade looks inappropriate to me.

Lew · 14th December 2007, 02:55 PM

Thanks Dave.

I just think there is some material coming up through the hilt and there is no metal there at all. Will post better pics when it arrives.

Lew

Lew · 30th December 2007, 05:15 PM

Here are some better pics of this small gem. It is going to need a nice pendokok to top it off.

Lew

Lew · 20th January 2008, 03:06 AM

Just wanted too post an updated photo.

Lew

David · 20th January 2008, 03:29 AM

The pendokok still looks a wee bit too large, but i would imagine that it would be really hard to get a good fit with such a small keris unless you had one custom made.
All in all it looks like a nice little patrem. I am still assuming it is a peninsula patrem and it's the first i've seen from that area. Anyone else have one from there to show?

PenangsangII · 21st January 2008, 04:56 AM

Yes, it looks very much Peninsula (northern) or Pattani patrem. Blade looks like pandai saras type, not sure about the pamor though.....

David · 21st January 2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Yes, it looks very much Peninsula (northern) or Pattani patrem. Blade looks like pandai saras type, not sure about the pamor though.....

I don't think it has a pamor which would not be unusal for that area.

Alam Shah · 22nd January 2008, 04:16 AM

Lew, sorry to see a gap for the pendokok...

Based on the carving style and blade material, the ensemble could probably be a souvenir piece from the northern peninsular, no pamor. Blade probably formed from a single piece of metal, without hardening. Lovely greneng and sheath, though.

Lew · 22nd January 2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Lew, sorry to see a gap for the pendokok...

Based on the carving style and blade material, the ensemble could probably be a souvenir piece from the northern peninsular, no pamor. Blade probably formed from a single piece of metal, without hardening. Lovely greneng and sheath, though.

Hi Alam Shah

Correct me if I am wrong but I have several patrems in my collection and one or two old ones have no pamor and are of one piece construction. As you noted the greneng work is very well done so why go through all that work for a souvenir piece? Most if not all tourist keris I have seen are of very poor quality when compared to this one.

Lew

David · 22nd January 2008, 05:53 PM

I tend to agree with Lew on this one. Lew, is the sheath definitely made for this keris? Does it fit perfectly? It seems equally well crafted as the blade and would seem a nicely made tourist ensemble, especially if the dress is original. What material is the white piece on the sheath? Is it bone or ivory?
It would seem to me that most keris from the northern peninsula tend towards being pamorless, so i don't think that is an indication of anything.

Is it just that patrems are unknown on the peninsula?

Lew · 22nd January 2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I tend to agree with Lew on this one. Lew, is the sheath definitely made for this keris? Does it fit perfectly? It seems equally well crafted as the blade and would seem a nicely made tourist ensemble, especially if the dress is original. What material is the white piece on the sheath? Is it bone or ivory?
It would seem to me that most keris from the northern peninsula tend towards being pamorless, so i don't think that is an indication of anything.

Is it just that patrems are unknown on the peninsula?

David

What material is the white piece on the sheath? Is it bone or ivory?

It is a horn tip at the bottom of the scabbard the white piece is bone I think..

Lew

Alam Shah · 22nd January 2008, 11:20 PM

Lew,
The greneng works perhap to reflect the artistic nature of this piece. Compare the other 'keris pendek', (short keris) with this. Btw, what I meant by 'hardening' is actually 'tempering'. Can you take a closer shot of the base of the blade (sor-soran) area, the whole blade and a close-up of the blade tip. Souvenir pieces do have varying quality levels.

David,
True, there are many pamorless blades in the peninsular. I didn't mean that no pamor equals to a tourist blade, by default. There are many excellent pieces out there which are pamorless. Let see the close-up before I comment further... I've been wrong before.

What is your opinion on the piece that I've attached?

14th December 2007, 06:08 AM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Patrem keris for comment Hi All Just won this little gem today. Can you let me know if you think it's a good one? I think it may need a mendak? Lew Attached Images

30th December 2007, 05:15 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Here are some better pics of this small gem. It is going to need a nice pendokok to top it off. Lew Attached Images

20th January 2008, 03:06 AM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Just wanted too post an updated photo. Lew Attached Images

22nd January 2008, 11:20 PM	#13
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Lew, The greneng works perhap to reflect the artistic nature of this piece. Compare the other 'keris pendek', (short keris) with this. Btw, what I meant by 'hardening' is actually 'tempering'. Can you take a closer shot of the base of the blade (sor-soran) area, the whole blade and a close-up of the blade tip. Souvenir pieces do have varying quality levels. David, True, there are many pamorless blades in the peninsular. I didn't mean that no pamor equals to a tourist blade, by default. There are many excellent pieces out there which are pamorless. Let see the close-up before I comment further... I've been wrong before. What is your opinion on the piece that I've attached? Attached Images Last edited by Alam Shah; 23rd January 2008 at 12:48 AM.

14th December 2007, 02:38 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,026	Lew, it looks like a peninsula piece to me so i'm sure that Shahrial or Kai Wee can put a better ID on it for you. The pics aren't too good, but it looks well crafted to me. Certainly worth more than you paid for it. And what i think you need is a pendokok, not a mendak. Whatever is there in between the hilt and blade looks inappropriate to me.

14th December 2007, 02:55 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Thanks Dave. I just think there is some material coming up through the hilt and there is no metal there at all. Will post better pics when it arrives. Lew

20th January 2008, 03:29 AM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,026	The pendokok still looks a wee bit too large, but i would imagine that it would be really hard to get a good fit with such a small keris unless you had one custom made. All in all it looks like a nice little patrem. I am still assuming it is a peninsula patrem and it's the first i've seen from that area. Anyone else have one from there to show?

21st January 2008, 04:56 AM	#7
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Yes, it looks very much Peninsula (northern) or Pattani patrem. Blade looks like pandai saras type, not sure about the pamor though.....

22nd January 2008, 04:16 AM	#9
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Lew, sorry to see a gap for the pendokok... Based on the carving style and blade material, the ensemble could probably be a souvenir piece from the northern peninsular, no pamor. Blade probably formed from a single piece of metal, without hardening. Lovely greneng and sheath, though.

22nd January 2008, 05:53 PM	#11
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,026	I tend to agree with Lew on this one. Lew, is the sheath definitely made for this keris? Does it fit perfectly? It seems equally well crafted as the blade and would seem a nicely made tourist ensemble, especially if the dress is original. What material is the white piece on the sheath? Is it bone or ivory? It would seem to me that most keris from the northern peninsula tend towards being pamorless, so i don't think that is an indication of anything. Is it just that patrems are unknown on the peninsula?