Early Halberd for coments

fernando · 27th June 2011, 10:01 AM

These are seller's pictures, probably taken with a low resolution cell phone.
I assume this is real early stuff ... or i don't know where to hide from myself

.
Probably with me next week; better pictures to post, then.
To ID the maker's mark will be my main score!

fernando · 1st July 2011, 01:23 PM

So it has arrived.
I didn't expect that the spear was reinforced in a such a sturdy manner; what a nasty lethal weapon this is.
It is now possible to figure out the mark is an eight pointed star. This type of marking is consistent with its aledged period (late XV beg. XVI century), as mentioned and shown in the work HAFTED WEAPONS IN MEDIEVAL AND RENAISSANCE EUROPE by JOHN WALDMAN.
I hope the experts like Matchlock come around, to either confirm or correct this assumption.

.

A Senefelder · 1st July 2011, 02:13 PM

This earlier form of halberd had a resurgence in the late 16th century. With the nice long langets this example has I would lean twords the 16th century date assigned to it by the seller. The nicely thickened tip makes this a good fighting, rather than ceremonial, example from what I can tell.

fernando · 1st July 2011, 02:37 PM

Thank you for your coments, A Snefelder

.-
Yes, definitely a fighting piece, much earlier than those which were (also) used to guard palaces and march in cerimonies.
The langets are indeed impressive, with their 71 and 73,5 cms length, respectively ... socket cone excluded. One is shorter than the other, as the nail holes are offset. I beleive that this, together with the fact that the cross section of the langet bars is rather irregular, confirms the early age of this example.

.

rickystl · 1st July 2011, 04:48 PM

Fernando: That is a really nice battle piece. Great find. Congrats!! Rick.

fernando · 1st July 2011, 04:58 PM

Thanks Rick

I was lucky; it was spotted by a fellow collector, who knows i fancy this type of early weapons.

fernando · 9th July 2011, 11:53 AM

That's how it looks, after a bath of olive oil in the blade and a new pole in oak, with a rectangular section and the corners flattened ... with a hand plane, to give it a rustic look. The nails used are hand made ancient stuff. But as the langets holes were numerous (18) i only applied 10 nails in the vital places, as they are to thick and very hard to thin, shorten and sharpen.
The dark colour in the shaft was obtained wuth three hands of "vieux chaine".

.

M ELEY · 9th July 2011, 12:55 PM

Wow! That looks great. From the pics, you can't tell the shaft is modern. This is an exceptional piece as always, my friend. If you ever decide to throw it away...

fernando · 9th July 2011, 01:03 PM

Thank you Mark.
Wait until you see what i have acquired today; will in principle pick it up on Monday.
It has nothing to do with this type of stuff, but something i bought to try and make you envy ... i hope

M ELEY · 10th July 2011, 05:18 AM

Oh, the tease!!!

Matchlock · 11th July 2011, 07:08 PM

Hi ' Nando,

My dearest friend:
Though honoring Mark's suggestion: should you ever decide on putting it in the garbage can please consider me first! I'll by tryin' to bid you out, Mark!

'Nando, I promise you I'll be comin' 'round soon and post more on this type of early halberds! I realize it's overdue since long ago. Please be patient, it's one of these hard times to me at the moment again that Woody Guthrie used to sing a whole lot about ...

And: yes, oh the tease!

Best,
Michl

fernando · 11th July 2011, 10:19 PM

Dear Michl,
What can i say ?
I remember feeding my moral status whilst being submitted to my (vast) heavy surgical/endurance processes: cheer up man; there is always somebody who is in a worse situation

Just come back ... no excuses

Matchlock · 11th July 2011, 10:54 PM

'Nando, my friend,

I didn't know what you had to to undergo to - please forgive me! It seems my heart is much more on my tongue than yours ... but otherwise, I'm all on my own while you, lucky guy that you are!

) you have your family and beautiful cats (all pics of of them saved, of course).

I really envy you for carrying on your live the way you do!

Coming back soon,
Michl

M ELEY · 12th July 2011, 04:44 AM

I, too, wish you a speedy recovery and return to the Forum, Michael. I do especially miss seeing the early cannons, bombards, grenades, swivels, etc, etc. Take care!

fernando · 12th July 2011, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... I didn't know what you had to to undergo to - please forgive me!...

Oh, never mind that; it's you that i am worried about ... not me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

I really envy you for carrying on your live the way you do!

...

Yeah, i know i am lucky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... Coming back soon ...

You better

Matchlock · 12th July 2011, 03:36 PM

O.k., this is what I found out.

My first guess was mid to 2nd half 15th c., ca. 1450-70.

This surmise is backed up by the existence of a very similar halberd, Swiss, dated to the second half of the 15th c., and preserved in the Historisches Museum Berne. I attach scans from Wegeli's well known inventory of 1939. The text mentions that the lower end of the haft has a pointed iron shoe, just like my earliest halberd of ca. 1500. This is a feature which does not occur after 1500.

Please also refer to my thread

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7450

Congrats once more, 'Nando, you made a fine bargain and did good hafting work as well!

Your new acquisition may well be of Swiss origin.

Various star shaped makers marks similar to that on your item are also to found on these Berne halberds.

Best,
Michael

fernando · 12th July 2011, 05:14 PM

Thank you ever so much for the precious data, Michl.
... and so good you posted those star marks; i will keep them in my files. The second one looks a lot like mine.
I am glad that you like the hafting; i sweat a lot to fabricate these things. I like the idea of the pointed iron shoe. I'll be looking for something of the kind, when i visit junk fairs.
... and i am extremely glad you are back

M ELEY · 12th July 2011, 09:38 PM

Amazing work at identifying this piece, Michael! This is why I love this forum...watching you guys work-

Matchlock · 13th July 2011, 03:14 PM

Thanks, Mark and 'Nando!

Of course your work, too, is highly esteemed!

Best,
Michael

27th June 2011, 10:01 AM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	Early Halberd for coments These are seller's pictures, probably taken with a low resolution cell phone. I assume this is real early stuff ... or i don't know where to hide from myself . Probably with me next week; better pictures to post, then. To ID the maker's mark will be my main score! Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 27th June 2011 at 12:21 PM.

1st July 2011, 01:23 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	So it has arrived. I didn't expect that the spear was reinforced in a such a sturdy manner; what a nasty lethal weapon this is. It is now possible to figure out the mark is an eight pointed star. This type of marking is consistent with its aledged period (late XV beg. XVI century), as mentioned and shown in the work HAFTED WEAPONS IN MEDIEVAL AND RENAISSANCE EUROPE by JOHN WALDMAN. I hope the experts like Matchlock come around, to either confirm or correct this assumption. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 21st December 2023 at 10:15 AM.

1st July 2011, 02:37 PM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	Thank you for your coments, A Snefelder .- Yes, definitely a fighting piece, much earlier than those which were (also) used to guard palaces and march in cerimonies. The langets are indeed impressive, with their 71 and 73,5 cms length, respectively ... socket cone excluded. One is shorter than the other, as the nail holes are offset. I beleive that this, together with the fact that the cross section of the langet bars is rather irregular, confirms the early age of this example. . Attached Images

9th July 2011, 11:53 AM	#7
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	That's how it looks, after a bath of olive oil in the blade and a new pole in oak, with a rectangular section and the corners flattened ... with a hand plane, to give it a rustic look. The nails used are hand made ancient stuff. But as the langets holes were numerous (18) i only applied 10 nails in the vital places, as they are to thick and very hard to thin, shorten and sharpen. The dark colour in the shaft was obtained wuth three hands of "vieux chaine". . Attached Images

12th July 2011, 03:36 PM	#16
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	O.k., this is what I found out. My first guess was mid to 2nd half 15th c., ca. 1450-70. This surmise is backed up by the existence of a very similar halberd, Swiss, dated to the second half of the 15th c., and preserved in the Historisches Museum Berne. I attach scans from Wegeli's well known inventory of 1939. The text mentions that the lower end of the haft has a pointed iron shoe, just like my earliest halberd of ca. 1500. This is a feature which does not occur after 1500. Please also refer to my thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7450 Congrats once more, 'Nando, you made a fine bargain and did good hafting work as well! Your new acquisition may well be of Swiss origin. Various star shaped makers marks similar to that on your item are also to found on these Berne halberds. Best, Michael Attached Images

1st July 2011, 02:13 PM	#3
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	This earlier form of halberd had a resurgence in the late 16th century. With the nice long langets this example has I would lean twords the 16th century date assigned to it by the seller. The nicely thickened tip makes this a good fighting, rather than ceremonial, example from what I can tell.

1st July 2011, 04:48 PM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Fernando: That is a really nice battle piece. Great find. Congrats!! Rick.

1st July 2011, 04:58 PM	#6
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	Thanks Rick I was lucky; it was spotted by a fellow collector, who knows i fancy this type of early weapons.

9th July 2011, 12:55 PM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Wow! That looks great. From the pics, you can't tell the shaft is modern. This is an exceptional piece as always, my friend. If you ever decide to throw it away...

9th July 2011, 01:03 PM	#9
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	Thank you Mark. Wait until you see what i have acquired today; will in principle pick it up on Monday. It has nothing to do with this type of stuff, but something i bought to try and make you envy ... i hope

10th July 2011, 05:18 AM	#10
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Oh, the tease!!!

11th July 2011, 07:08 PM	#11
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi ' Nando, My dearest friend: Though honoring Mark's suggestion: should you ever decide on putting it in the garbage can please consider me first! I'll by tryin' to bid you out, Mark! 'Nando, I promise you I'll be comin' 'round soon and post more on this type of early halberds! I realize it's overdue since long ago. Please be patient, it's one of these hard times to me at the moment again that Woody Guthrie used to sing a whole lot about ... And: yes, oh the tease! Best, Michl

11th July 2011, 10:19 PM	#12
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	Dear Michl, What can i say ? I remember feeding my moral status whilst being submitted to my (vast) heavy surgical/endurance processes: cheer up man; there is always somebody who is in a worse situation Just come back ... no excuses

11th July 2011, 10:54 PM	#13
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	'Nando, my friend, I didn't know what you had to to undergo to - please forgive me! It seems my heart is much more on my tongue than yours ... but otherwise, I'm all on my own while you, lucky guy that you are! ) you have your family and beautiful cats (all pics of of them saved, of course). I really envy you for carrying on your live the way you do! Coming back soon, Michl

12th July 2011, 04:44 AM	#14
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	I, too, wish you a speedy recovery and return to the Forum, Michael. I do especially miss seeing the early cannons, bombards, grenades, swivels, etc, etc. Take care!

12th July 2011, 05:14 PM	#17
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	Thank you ever so much for the precious data, Michl. ... and so good you posted those star marks; i will keep them in my files. The second one looks a lot like mine. I am glad that you like the hafting; i sweat a lot to fabricate these things. I like the idea of the pointed iron shoe. I'll be looking for something of the kind, when i visit junk fairs. ... and i am extremely glad you are back

12th July 2011, 09:38 PM	#18
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	Amazing work at identifying this piece, Michael! This is why I love this forum...watching you guys work-

13th July 2011, 03:14 PM	#19
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Thanks, Mark and 'Nando! Of course your work, too, is highly esteemed! Best, Michael