a javanese hilt.

danny1976 · 24th February 2011, 11:02 PM

Hello Members ,

I found a keris with a ''strange'' smal hilt, and i.m looking for info now.
i now 2 story,s about hilt,s without patra,s.

I think i read somewhere that this kind is a older type , and i heart a storry yesterday that hilt,s like this could be a ''poor'' mans hilt , because it was cheaper without the carvings of the patra,s .(strange story imo)

so hope that someone can help me in the right direction.

regards,

danny

Marcokeris · 25th February 2011, 01:35 AM

I think you are right. Little work=cheap prize (of course with the same material and the same age, the same quality and... the same maker)

GIO · 25th February 2011, 04:02 PM

My personal - and humble - opinion is that it could be a hilt made outside Indonesia to replace the original lost. In fact, apart from the missing patra carving, the outlines of the hilt seem rather non-original to me.
In case it could be possible to identify the wood utilized, this could help.

danny1976 · 25th February 2011, 04:34 PM

@ marco,

Yes it could be possible that it was a cheaper version .

@ Gio,

I don,t think so Gio , this keris is brougth to holland in 1951 and since then it was in a box on the attick.

Sajen · 25th February 2011, 07:11 PM

Hi Danny,

here a hilt from a keris which I have in my collection. East Java origin. I have seen some hilts without patras, most of the time from East Java.

Regards,

Detlef

GIO · 26th February 2011, 06:19 PM

@ Gio,

I don,t think so Gio , this keris is brougth to holland in 1951 and since then it was in a box on the attick.[/QUOTE]

Yes, you are right. After further examination I recognize some characteristic lines. It could be a cheap solution or a hilt made in a hurry to dress the blade.

A. G. Maisey · 28th February 2011, 07:26 AM

Not all Javanese planar hilts have cecekan.

Hilts made for sandang walikat dress usually do not carry cecekan.

Sometimes a hilt will be made by an owner, and these do not have cecekan.

A keris made by a general carver , especially in an area that is not under karaton influence will usually not have cecekan.

Many reasons for no cecekan.

24th February 2011, 11:02 PM	#1
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 232	a javanese hilt. Hello Members , I found a keris with a ''strange'' smal hilt, and i.m looking for info now. i now 2 story,s about hilt,s without patra,s. I think i read somewhere that this kind is a older type , and i heart a storry yesterday that hilt,s like this could be a ''poor'' mans hilt , because it was cheaper without the carvings of the patra,s .(strange story imo) so hope that someone can help me in the right direction. regards, danny Attached Images

25th February 2011, 07:11 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,485	Hi Danny, here a hilt from a keris which I have in my collection. East Java origin. I have seen some hilts without patras, most of the time from East Java. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

25th February 2011, 01:35 AM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	I think you are right. Little work=cheap prize (of course with the same material and the same age, the same quality and... the same maker)

25th February 2011, 04:02 PM	#3
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 310	My personal - and humble - opinion is that it could be a hilt made outside Indonesia to replace the original lost. In fact, apart from the missing patra carving, the outlines of the hilt seem rather non-original to me. In case it could be possible to identify the wood utilized, this could help.

25th February 2011, 04:34 PM	#4
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 232	@ marco, Yes it could be possible that it was a cheaper version . @ Gio, I don,t think so Gio , this keris is brougth to holland in 1951 and since then it was in a box on the attick.

26th February 2011, 06:19 PM	#6
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 310	@ Gio, I don,t think so Gio , this keris is brougth to holland in 1951 and since then it was in a box on the attick.[/QUOTE] Yes, you are right. After further examination I recognize some characteristic lines. It could be a cheap solution or a hilt made in a hurry to dress the blade.

28th February 2011, 07:26 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Not all Javanese planar hilts have cecekan. Hilts made for sandang walikat dress usually do not carry cecekan. Sometimes a hilt will be made by an owner, and these do not have cecekan. A keris made by a general carver , especially in an area that is not under karaton influence will usually not have cecekan. Many reasons for no cecekan.