N African, NE African or Arabian saber???

Tim Simmons · 10th December 2005, 05:02 PM

I came across this while diddling today. The tang is the same shape as the handle and wrapped in zinc strips. The leather work on the scabbard at first glance looks African. I thought N African but the leather just does not seem right to me. The horn of Africa fits more to me or even from the Arabian peninsula. I think I have seen handles with metal strips like this before, here on this site? The platted leather around the scabbard mouth makes me think east. I know some of you are pretty hot on Arabian stuff and will no doubt point me in the right direction. Come on pick it to pieces

. Thanks Tim

carlos · 10th December 2005, 05:55 PM

I THINK IS A BEDUIN SWORD,MAYBE OF THE SINAI, BUT ALWAYS I HAVE SEEN THE HILT WITH METAL STRIPIS, NOT LEATHER.
REGARDS

Lew · 10th December 2005, 06:18 PM

Tim

That is a wild looking sword with crocodile skin scabbard the blade looks like an old Euro sword blade? Very nice you Brits get the best stuff

Lew

Freddy · 10th December 2005, 06:27 PM

Couldn't the blade be European ?

The sheath looks like pieces I've seen from Cameroon.

Nice sword, though.

Yannis · 10th December 2005, 06:35 PM

I agree with Carlos. Here is a similar but more elaborate example from Oriental Arms

Tim Simmons · 10th December 2005, 06:35 PM

Thanks chaps, Bedouin, yes I did not think of that.

carlos- The handle is wrapped in zinc metal srips

Lew- It is not covered in croc skin it just looks that way as many pieces have been sewn on to cover the scabbard. I think the blade is European or made where steam hammers were in use like India. Bedouin from Sinai thats great somehow I felt N Africa was wrong. Thanks Tim

Great stuff Yannis.

Yannis · 10th December 2005, 06:50 PM

It is not mine Tim. It belongs to Artzi's personal collection and I suppose it will stay there for long.

You did a good score with this piece. They are rare.

Tim Simmons · 10th December 2005, 07:02 PM

Thanks Yannis, it was 14 on the fish and chip scale

.

Lew · 10th December 2005, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Thanks Yannis, it was 14 on the fish and chip scale

.

Tim

I need a currency converter how much is that in U.S. cheese burgers?

Lew

ariel · 11th December 2005, 12:57 AM

I am intrigued by the blade: it looks much nicer than regular Beduin stuff, with rather sophisticated fulled scheme and not very pronounced curve.
For all I know, it looks like a blade from Caucasian shashka.
A lot of Circassians emigrated to Turkey, Lebanon and what later became Palestine after the Russian conquest of the N. Caucasus. There still are Circassian villages in Israel and they are the elite force and personal King's guards in Jordan. The Beduins got their blades from all sources and a shashka would be a natural "donor".
Check the blade carefully for any markings.

Tim Simmons · 11th December 2005, 09:12 AM

ariel,

Thanks for the interesting information. I was also impressed at the quality of the obvious trade blade when compered to some, notably on many tulwar like weapons. Unfortunately there are no marks. The back of the blade is rounded ,the whole thing feels comfortable in motion. The tang is not the same shape as the handle as I said earlier, on close inspection the tang ends just before the hooked pommel, the gap being filled with some sort of black gum. The scabbard appealed to me the most but the blade is growing on me, as it is more possible that the blade although a trade blade may well not have been made by the usual western European producers. Tim

Dmitry · 20th November 2011, 04:51 PM

I have seen similar hilts attributed to the Palestine region.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 20th November 2011, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I came across this while diddling today. The tang is the same shape as the handle and wrapped in zinc strips. The leather work on the scabbard at first glance looks African. I thought N African but the leather just does not seem right to me. The horn of Africa fits more to me or even from the Arabian peninsula. I think I have seen handles with metal strips like this before, here on this site? The platted leather around the scabbard mouth makes me think east. I know some of you are pretty hot on Arabian stuff and will no doubt point me in the right direction. Come on pick it to pieces

. Thanks Tim

Salaams Tim Simmons, This Bedu Nimcha? is interesting. I can see a blade mark about an inch on the photo from the hilt no? in the shape of a cross or two. I agree with Ariel. The blade looks like Caucasus. I would say a 19th C trade blade. Ibrahiim

Tim Simmons · 20th November 2011, 06:51 PM

This pieces has slipped through the hands of a couple of members here, by lack of knowing. Which is a shame but somebody has a good thing.

colin henshaw · 20th November 2011, 07:05 PM

The metal wrapping to the sword handle is a bit similar in concept to that on this club I previously posted. There is a club with the same shape in the Pitt- Rivers Museum, described as from Palestine.

broadaxe · 21st November 2011, 09:32 AM

Yes, very nice Sinai/Negev Bedouin saber. The black gum is a fixing resin used by most arab artisans for mounting blades, I believe it is terebinth mixed with other minerals.

stephen wood · 21st November 2011, 03:39 PM

...a similar blade here mounted on an Indian hilt.

10th December 2005, 05:02 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	N African, NE African or Arabian saber??? I came across this while diddling today. The tang is the same shape as the handle and wrapped in zinc strips. The leather work on the scabbard at first glance looks African. I thought N African but the leather just does not seem right to me. The horn of Africa fits more to me or even from the Arabian peninsula. I think I have seen handles with metal strips like this before, here on this site? The platted leather around the scabbard mouth makes me think east. I know some of you are pretty hot on Arabian stuff and will no doubt point me in the right direction. Come on pick it to pieces . Thanks Tim Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 10th December 2005 at 05:12 PM. Reason: forgot picture of blade

10th December 2005, 06:35 PM	#5
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	I agree with Carlos. Here is a similar but more elaborate example from Oriental Arms Attached Images

10th December 2005, 06:35 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Thanks chaps, Bedouin, yes I did not think of that. carlos- The handle is wrapped in zinc metal srips Lew- It is not covered in croc skin it just looks that way as many pieces have been sewn on to cover the scabbard. I think the blade is European or made where steam hammers were in use like India. Bedouin from Sinai thats great somehow I felt N Africa was wrong. Thanks Tim Great stuff Yannis. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 10th December 2005 at 09:04 PM. Reason: thinking a little more

20th November 2011, 07:05 PM	#15
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	The metal wrapping to the sword handle is a bit similar in concept to that on this club I previously posted. There is a club with the same shape in the Pitt- Rivers Museum, described as from Palestine. Attached Images

10th December 2005, 05:55 PM	#2
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 731	I THINK IS A BEDUIN SWORD,MAYBE OF THE SINAI, BUT ALWAYS I HAVE SEEN THE HILT WITH METAL STRIPIS, NOT LEATHER. REGARDS

10th December 2005, 06:18 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Tim That is a wild looking sword with crocodile skin scabbard the blade looks like an old Euro sword blade? Very nice you Brits get the best stuff Lew

10th December 2005, 06:27 PM	#4
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Couldn't the blade be European ? The sheath looks like pieces I've seen from Cameroon. Nice sword, though.

10th December 2005, 06:50 PM	#7
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	It is not mine Tim. It belongs to Artzi's personal collection and I suppose it will stay there for long. You did a good score with this piece. They are rare.

10th December 2005, 07:02 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Thanks Yannis, it was 14 on the fish and chip scale .

11th December 2005, 12:57 AM	#10
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am intrigued by the blade: it looks much nicer than regular Beduin stuff, with rather sophisticated fulled scheme and not very pronounced curve. For all I know, it looks like a blade from Caucasian shashka. A lot of Circassians emigrated to Turkey, Lebanon and what later became Palestine after the Russian conquest of the N. Caucasus. There still are Circassian villages in Israel and they are the elite force and personal King's guards in Jordan. The Beduins got their blades from all sources and a shashka would be a natural "donor". Check the blade carefully for any markings.

11th December 2005, 09:12 AM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	ariel, Thanks for the interesting information. I was also impressed at the quality of the obvious trade blade when compered to some, notably on many tulwar like weapons. Unfortunately there are no marks. The back of the blade is rounded ,the whole thing feels comfortable in motion. The tang is not the same shape as the handle as I said earlier, on close inspection the tang ends just before the hooked pommel, the gap being filled with some sort of black gum. The scabbard appealed to me the most but the blade is growing on me, as it is more possible that the blade although a trade blade may well not have been made by the usual western European producers. Tim

20th November 2011, 04:51 PM	#12
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I have seen similar hilts attributed to the Palestine region.

20th November 2011, 06:51 PM	#14
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	This pieces has slipped through the hands of a couple of members here, by lack of knowing. Which is a shame but somebody has a good thing.

21st November 2011, 09:32 AM	#16
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	Yes, very nice Sinai/Negev Bedouin saber. The black gum is a fixing resin used by most arab artisans for mounting blades, I believe it is terebinth mixed with other minerals.

21st November 2011, 03:39 PM	#17
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...a similar blade here mounted on an Indian hilt.