Scottish basket hilts and edged weapons

Jim McDougall · 18th February 2008, 02:47 AM

Thank you for coming in on this Richard! Excellent questions as well.
It does seem amazing that this sword attributed to such a historic figure could be in such a state, and I think Paul's explanation covers it quite well. The hiding away of weapons, regardless of importance, has always been quite common, indeed after the proscription of Scottish weaponry following the '45, vast numbers of weapons according to stories told, ended up in thatched roofs and all manner of hideaways.

I recall years ago seeing illustrations of the sword attributed to Rob Roy that Paul mentions from Sir Walter Scott's Abbotsford, and for some reason feeling that as Paul noted, it may well be 'a' sword used at one time by Rob Roy, but certainly not exclusively. It is often amazing, the almost theatrical tales that are applied to weapons presented to collectors, and romantization is quite frankly what made Sir Walter Scott the magnificent writer he was!

In one item I found written in "Scotland Illustrated" by William Beattie (1847), the author notes that the duel between Charles Stuart of Ardshiel and Rob Roy, MacGregor was angered when a cut by Ardshiel drew blood, and having reached satisfaction , he supposedly threw his broadsword into Lochvail nearly opposite Stronvaar House. The author speculated that it was still there.

Interestingly this is but one version of the tale, in this case claiming that the cut became infected and MacGregor died later from it. In other versions of the tale, it is said MacGregor died quietly in his home at a goodly age, not by sword or bullet.

It stands to reason that the sword we are discussing here most certainly was at least one of the weapons used by Rob Roy, and corresponds well to the contemporary descriptions as well noted by Paul. It seems doubtful that Rob Roy would throw a beloved basket hilt into a lake, regardless of how angered he might have been. I am just glad that it was given over to Paul before it suffered more damage, and that it is now preserved.

Paul, thank you for addressing the liners of these as well, a topic that is seldom ever mentioned especially in such detail.

Jeff, you're here!!! You know I've been waiting for those beauties of yours

I'd like to know more on these 'S' hilts as well.

The 'twysden' attribution came from Mazansky didn't it?

Gentlemen, thank you all very much for bringing so much into this thread!

All very best regards,
Jim

18th February 2008, 02:47 AM	#20
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,746	Thank you for coming in on this Richard! Excellent questions as well. It does seem amazing that this sword attributed to such a historic figure could be in such a state, and I think Paul's explanation covers it quite well. The hiding away of weapons, regardless of importance, has always been quite common, indeed after the proscription of Scottish weaponry following the '45, vast numbers of weapons according to stories told, ended up in thatched roofs and all manner of hideaways. I recall years ago seeing illustrations of the sword attributed to Rob Roy that Paul mentions from Sir Walter Scott's Abbotsford, and for some reason feeling that as Paul noted, it may well be 'a' sword used at one time by Rob Roy, but certainly not exclusively. It is often amazing, the almost theatrical tales that are applied to weapons presented to collectors, and romantization is quite frankly what made Sir Walter Scott the magnificent writer he was! In one item I found written in "Scotland Illustrated" by William Beattie (1847), the author notes that the duel between Charles Stuart of Ardshiel and Rob Roy, MacGregor was angered when a cut by Ardshiel drew blood, and having reached satisfaction , he supposedly threw his broadsword into Lochvail nearly opposite Stronvaar House. The author speculated that it was still there. Interestingly this is but one version of the tale, in this case claiming that the cut became infected and MacGregor died later from it. In other versions of the tale, it is said MacGregor died quietly in his home at a goodly age, not by sword or bullet. It stands to reason that the sword we are discussing here most certainly was at least one of the weapons used by Rob Roy, and corresponds well to the contemporary descriptions as well noted by Paul. It seems doubtful that Rob Roy would throw a beloved basket hilt into a lake, regardless of how angered he might have been. I am just glad that it was given over to Paul before it suffered more damage, and that it is now preserved. Paul, thank you for addressing the liners of these as well, a topic that is seldom ever mentioned especially in such detail. Jeff, you're here!!! You know I've been waiting for those beauties of yours I'd like to know more on these 'S' hilts as well. The 'twysden' attribution came from Mazansky didn't it? Gentlemen, thank you all very much for bringing so much into this thread! All very best regards, Jim