Please, need help I.D and some code in this sword.

brekele · 16th April 2008, 10:54 AM

Hi....
This sword it seem not old but also not that recently made in my opinion.
The sheath made of leather.
Please, anyone could help to explain what is the meaning behind of simbols on this sword? ( stars , chinese word ?

)
Very appreciated for the help and thank you.

Have a nice sun shine

bre

Andrew · 16th April 2008, 01:54 PM

Can't help with the characters, but I will suggest that the acid-resist on the blade looks like very recent work.

Do you have any photos of the entire sword? Is it two-edged or single? Any curve at all?

brekele · 17th April 2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Can't help with the characters, but I will suggest that the acid-resist on the blade looks like very recent work.

Do you have any photos of the entire sword? Is it two-edged or single? Any curve at all?

Here are more fotos Andrew.
The blade is one edged.
This blade is straight but lentur (indonesia word), I dont know this word in English

, Maybe Alan Maisey can help this word ( I hope)
Thank you Alan.

Bre

brekele · 17th April 2008, 01:04 PM

Here are more fotos

RSWORD · 17th April 2008, 01:09 PM

This is a newly made sword from China or even possibly from Indonesia.

brekele · 17th April 2008, 01:43 PM

Thank you for the sharing information RSWORD

Is there any name for this kind of sword? I mean according the shape.

RSWORD · 17th April 2008, 04:47 PM

Contemporary swords are often interpretations of earlier examples. I think in this case the sword is made to look slightly like a Japanese military sword, particularly a WWII NCO pattern which were often numbered on the blade at the hilt. All the additional etchings to the blade are "fluff" to add appeal to the appearance of the blade. I don't know if these modern pieces have a particular name other than wallhanger or decorative object.

brekele · 17th April 2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

I don't know if these modern pieces have a particular name other than wallhanger or decorative object.

RSWORD, this wallhanger or decorative object sword is strange for me

Because the blade is "lentur" elastic

and now even this big blade have a small baby blade

come out from the handle (pommel ?)
he..he..he.. cute baby blade

brekele · 18th April 2008, 01:09 PM

Now, this wallhanger or decorative object sword have again some Chinese words that come out from stomach of the handle

josh stout · 18th April 2008, 03:34 PM

Very strange. I am leaning toward the idea this is an Indonesian sword, probably made for the domestic market. The domestic market would of course include internal tourism, but also martial artists who appreciate a good blade. It would not be unusual for an Indonesian to belong to both of those categories.

The cheap Chinese made stuff rarely has that level of etching, while such is quite common on 20th c. Indonesian blades. There is also the feeling of talismanic properties to the characters and other etching which would go with an Indonesian provenance.
Josh

Mark · 18th April 2008, 04:57 PM

This similar to some early Chinese pseudo-antique swords, though a bit more elaborate. I say pseudo-antique because they don't seem to be a repro of anything specific. I have seen them curved, and with all-metal scabbards painted brown with a flower pattern.

As far as I was able to find out, these are supposed "occupation swords" from the Japanese occupation of Manchuria before and during WW2. You can see both the Japanese sun disc flag, and Manuchu-kuo rising sun flag in the blade decoration (the Manuchurian "protectorate" was called Manchu-kuo). I had one in hand once, but never dared to bend it. I am surprised that yours is so flexible. Perhaps it is the real thing, but I would say that the workmanship is very poor. But then, I don't imagine that the Japanese cared to spend much money on decent swords for a people they considered to hold a status only slightly above laboratory rats (there was extensive testing of Japanese chemical and biological weapons on Manuchurians, both with and without the test subjects' knowledge).

It is an intriguing piece, but I question its genuineness. It would be interesting to see if the characters actually make sense.

Mark · 18th April 2008, 04:59 PM

PS: I resized all of the photos in this thread to fit on the screen without scrolling sideways. I apologize that the order of some of them got shuffled, but it is hard to re-create the exact order in the attachment manager, for some reason. Hard for me, at any rate.

Mark · 18th April 2008, 05:09 PM

More info I just discovered on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchukuo). The rising sun doesn't seem to be the Manchu-kuo flag, though I thought I had determined that when I was investigating these swords several years ago. Based on the Wikipedia entry, what I described as a flower pattern on the scabbard was, I think, the Imperial crest.

I have to back track and see where I got the idea that the second flag was Manchuria.

16th April 2008, 10:54 AM	#1
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Please, need help I.D and some code in this sword. Hi.... This sword it seem not old but also not that recently made in my opinion. The sheath made of leather. Please, anyone could help to explain what is the meaning behind of simbols on this sword? ( stars , chinese word ? ) Very appreciated for the help and thank you. Have a nice sun shine bre Attached Images Last edited by Mark; 18th April 2008 at 04:21 PM. Reason: re-sized photos

17th April 2008, 01:04 PM	#4
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Here are more fotos Attached Images Last edited by Mark; 18th April 2008 at 04:29 PM. Reason: resized photos

18th April 2008, 01:09 PM	#9
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Now, this wallhanger or decorative object sword have again some Chinese words that come out from stomach of the handle Attached Images Last edited by Mark; 18th April 2008 at 04:48 PM. Reason: resized photos

16th April 2008, 01:54 PM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Can't help with the characters, but I will suggest that the acid-resist on the blade looks like very recent work. Do you have any photos of the entire sword? Is it two-edged or single? Any curve at all?

17th April 2008, 01:09 PM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	This is a newly made sword from China or even possibly from Indonesia.

17th April 2008, 01:43 PM	#6
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Thank you for the sharing information RSWORD Is there any name for this kind of sword? I mean according the shape.

17th April 2008, 04:47 PM	#7
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Contemporary swords are often interpretations of earlier examples. I think in this case the sword is made to look slightly like a Japanese military sword, particularly a WWII NCO pattern which were often numbered on the blade at the hilt. All the additional etchings to the blade are "fluff" to add appeal to the appearance of the blade. I don't know if these modern pieces have a particular name other than wallhanger or decorative object.

18th April 2008, 03:34 PM	#10
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Very strange. I am leaning toward the idea this is an Indonesian sword, probably made for the domestic market. The domestic market would of course include internal tourism, but also martial artists who appreciate a good blade. It would not be unusual for an Indonesian to belong to both of those categories. The cheap Chinese made stuff rarely has that level of etching, while such is quite common on 20th c. Indonesian blades. There is also the feeling of talismanic properties to the characters and other etching which would go with an Indonesian provenance. Josh

18th April 2008, 04:57 PM	#11
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	This similar to some early Chinese pseudo-antique swords, though a bit more elaborate. I say pseudo-antique because they don't seem to be a repro of anything specific. I have seen them curved, and with all-metal scabbards painted brown with a flower pattern. As far as I was able to find out, these are supposed "occupation swords" from the Japanese occupation of Manchuria before and during WW2. You can see both the Japanese sun disc flag, and Manuchu-kuo rising sun flag in the blade decoration (the Manuchurian "protectorate" was called Manchu-kuo). I had one in hand once, but never dared to bend it. I am surprised that yours is so flexible. Perhaps it is the real thing, but I would say that the workmanship is very poor. But then, I don't imagine that the Japanese cared to spend much money on decent swords for a people they considered to hold a status only slightly above laboratory rats (there was extensive testing of Japanese chemical and biological weapons on Manuchurians, both with and without the test subjects' knowledge). It is an intriguing piece, but I question its genuineness. It would be interesting to see if the characters actually make sense.

18th April 2008, 04:59 PM	#12
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	PS: I resized all of the photos in this thread to fit on the screen without scrolling sideways. I apologize that the order of some of them got shuffled, but it is hard to re-create the exact order in the attachment manager, for some reason. Hard for me, at any rate.

18th April 2008, 05:09 PM	#13
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	More info I just discovered on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchukuo). The rising sun doesn't seem to be the Manchu-kuo flag, though I thought I had determined that when I was investigating these swords several years ago. Based on the Wikipedia entry, what I described as a flower pattern on the scabbard was, I think, the Imperial crest. I have to back track and see where I got the idea that the second flag was Manchuria.