help please with this short sword

thinreadline · 23rd January 2012, 12:48 PM

Another that is out of my geographical area .. so was wondering what it might be . Overall length 55 cm , scabbard & hilt of wood.

DaveA · 24th January 2012, 02:02 AM

The braided rattan binding the scabbard suggests SE Asia. I remember reading something about pommels with this shape from the area but it slips my mind for the moment.

thinreadline · 24th January 2012, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveA

The braided rattan binding the scabbard suggests SE Asia. I remember reading something about pommels with this shape from the area but it slips my mind for the moment.

Yes I would agree with that , as in my 'heap' I have several items that I know are SE Asian and tthey do have scabbards made in the same sort of way.. Thanks.

Atlantia · 24th January 2012, 01:52 PM

Bloody hell Richmond!
Just how big is that heap of yours?

I agree with Dave. The work reminds me of my Golok, so my guess would be Indonesia or thereabouts.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=golok

Absolutely beautiful design. Very unusual.

Best
Gene

Iain · 24th January 2012, 02:11 PM

Agreed on SE Asia. Quite an unusual form, the blade decoration in particular perks my interest. Not a style I remember seeing?

Very interesting hilt form as well, having trouble thinking of anything even remotely similar from those general regions.

Jim McDougall · 24th January 2012, 02:29 PM

LOL Gene!!! good point, this seemingly endless mountain of Richmond's is pure treasure!!!
Im with you guys on Indonesia, the style of the scabbard and that distinct point at the tip reminds me of scabbards from those places, but I cant recall exactly where.
Iain...I cant help thinking this looks like an Indonesian 'takouba' !!

maybe I need a day off ?

All the best,
Jim

Iain · 24th January 2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Iain...I cant help thinking this looks like an Indonesian 'takouba' !!

maybe I need a day off ?

All the best,
Jim

If it wasn't for that scabbard I'd be going for a different ID and end up with mud on my face.

And that pile of Richmond's IS pure gold, keep em coming mate.

thinreadline · 24th January 2012, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

If it wasn't for that scabbard I'd be going for a different ID and end up with mud on my face.

And that pile of Richmond's IS pure gold, keep em coming mate.

Well you know Iain ( and Jim ) when I first pulled it out .. I thought the same .. but this is hope springing eternal etc ...
As for the heap .. well I told you it was 25 years + accumulation with no theme , rhyme nor reason ! Thats not to say I dont collect or display .. but basically if it didnt grab me , it didnt go on the wall, it went on the 'heap' . Thats why I am so glad I found this forum .. I was floundering for years with no prospect of anything becoming clearer !
Cheers
Richmond

Atlantia · 24th January 2012, 03:40 PM

Hi Richmond,
Can we see some clearer pictures of the blade decoration?
Best
Gene

Tim Simmons · 24th January 2012, 03:58 PM

The engraving on the blade very much reminds me of that on many older Mandau so I am going to suggest Borneo. I think there are many unrecognised blade forms from Borneo. I do not think it will be long before a Mandau with similar engraving pops up.

Sajen · 24th January 2012, 04:56 PM

Sorry Tim,

but the blade engraving reminds me to dha's I have seen and I really don't think that it is an indonesian sword. My guess that it is from Kambodcha, Laos or Vietnam but this is just my guess. The blade shape isn't like a dha but look at the tip of the sheath.

Regards,

Detlef

Tim Simmons · 27th January 2012, 06:48 PM

In the hope of exploring this thread and other unrecognised Borneo weapons. I ask just as a start. Mandau collectors please join in. I have had Mandaus with similar style engraving. Look at the midle Mandau in this link posted by Lee. We see the same form to the decorative plan. What we really need is better pictures from Richmond and more contributions.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14971

thinreadline · 30th January 2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

In the hope of exploring this thread and other unrecognised Borneo weapons. I ask just as a start. Mandau collectors please join in. I have had Mandaus with similar style engraving. Look at the midle Mandau in this link posted by Lee. We see the same form to the decorative plan. What we really need is better pictures from Richmond and more contributions.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14971

Have taken what I hope are better shots of the blade decoration in the hope that someone may be inspired with an idea.

Jim McDougall · 30th January 2012, 04:18 PM

Thanks for the excellent images of the motif Richmond!
I am inclined to agree, this motif seems very much Indonesian or as well noted, the kind of incised motif seen on mandau, which I have also seen quite similar. It seems to be of a type weapon which would be considered outside regular classification and of course modern.

katana · 30th January 2012, 05:06 PM

Hi Richmond ,
the rounded shoulders just before the tang suggests to me a re-hilt as the blade/hilt is not well matched,

Regards David

23rd January 2012, 12:48 PM	#1
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	help please with this short sword Another that is out of my geographical area .. so was wondering what it might be . Overall length 55 cm , scabbard & hilt of wood. Attached Images

24th January 2012, 02:02 AM	#2
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	SE Asia The braided rattan binding the scabbard suggests SE Asia. I remember reading something about pommels with this shape from the area but it slips my mind for the moment.

24th January 2012, 01:52 PM	#4
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Bloody hell Richmond! Just how big is that heap of yours? I agree with Dave. The work reminds me of my Golok, so my guess would be Indonesia or thereabouts. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=golok Absolutely beautiful design. Very unusual. Best Gene Attached Images

24th January 2012, 02:11 PM	#5
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,680	Agreed on SE Asia. Quite an unusual form, the blade decoration in particular perks my interest. Not a style I remember seeing? Very interesting hilt form as well, having trouble thinking of anything even remotely similar from those general regions.

24th January 2012, 02:29 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	LOL Gene!!! good point, this seemingly endless mountain of Richmond's is pure treasure!!! Im with you guys on Indonesia, the style of the scabbard and that distinct point at the tip reminds me of scabbards from those places, but I cant recall exactly where. Iain...I cant help thinking this looks like an Indonesian 'takouba' !! maybe I need a day off ? All the best, Jim

24th January 2012, 03:40 PM	#9
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Richmond, Can we see some clearer pictures of the blade decoration? Best Gene

24th January 2012, 03:58 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	The engraving on the blade very much reminds me of that on many older Mandau so I am going to suggest Borneo. I think there are many unrecognised blade forms from Borneo. I do not think it will be long before a Mandau with similar engraving pops up.

24th January 2012, 04:56 PM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,469	Sorry Tim, but the blade engraving reminds me to dha's I have seen and I really don't think that it is an indonesian sword. My guess that it is from Kambodcha, Laos or Vietnam but this is just my guess. The blade shape isn't like a dha but look at the tip of the sheath. Regards, Detlef

27th January 2012, 06:48 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	In the hope of exploring this thread and other unrecognised Borneo weapons. I ask just as a start. Mandau collectors please join in. I have had Mandaus with similar style engraving. Look at the midle Mandau in this link posted by Lee. We see the same form to the decorative plan. What we really need is better pictures from Richmond and more contributions. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14971

30th January 2012, 04:18 PM	#14
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Thanks for the excellent images of the motif Richmond! I am inclined to agree, this motif seems very much Indonesian or as well noted, the kind of incised motif seen on mandau, which I have also seen quite similar. It seems to be of a type weapon which would be considered outside regular classification and of course modern.

30th January 2012, 05:06 PM	#15
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Richmond , the rounded shoulders just before the tang suggests to me a re-hilt as the blade/hilt is not well matched, Regards David