A worthy kattar for comment

Montino Bourbon · 12th March 2005, 12:13 AM

Here's a kattar (Katar? khattar? I've seen several spellings) That I picked up three years ago. The koftgari is excellent, and the blade is very fine wootz, with a massive armor-piercing point. I believe that the koftgari on the side shows the imperial family's parasol. The detail is done in several colors of gold, and the small inscription in Devanagari script was translated for me as "Ram protect me".

I have a couple of questions. Would it be feasible to etch the blade to bring out the wootz pattern better? should it even be done?

I welcome all comments!

RSWORD · 12th March 2005, 12:41 AM

Lovely Katar. In regards to the wootz, it is hard to say without close up shots of the pattern. Often in Katars, though, the wootz would only be visible in the fullering and the edges would be polished bright. Indian wootz tends to be of low contrast to begin with so if the pattern is consistent in the fullering, you may not get any additional "pop" by etching it. However, if the wootz is barely visible at all, you might get a good "pop" by etching it. However, I advise leaving it up to the professionals. Especially on a piece as nice as this.

Jens Nordlunde · 12th March 2005, 01:02 PM

You have an old and very nice katar – congratulation. The midrib on the blade is the ‘Kundalini flame’ or the ‘Tree of life’ springing from a lotus bud.
I agree with RSword that the question about etching or not is a difficult one. You know what you have, but can’t be sure of what you will get. Normally, if the pattern is very week, I would etch the blade – but the decision is yours.
I am not sure that it is umbrellas shown on the side guards; my guess is that it is flowers, but I am not sure. Have a look at the picture shown, do you think it is umbrellas or do you think it is flowers? I think they are flowers.
It may be easier for you to see if I add the picture - sorry

.

Jens Nordlunde · 12th March 2005, 02:51 PM

I remembered to have see the decoration on the side guards before in one of my books – but in which?
I started with Hendley, and in the second I found. ‘Damascene Work in India’ it is on plate 25. Here is what he writes about it.
‘Hindu thrusting dagger. False damascening in gold from Kotha, a great State, an offshot from Boondi in Rajputana; cost Rs. 50. Here gold of different tints has been employed with good effect.’
Using a magnifying glass I can't see that the two side guards can be closer to each other.
Even the number of flowers seem to be the same.
Sorry, I forgot, the book was printed in 1892.

Ann Feuerbach · 12th March 2005, 04:59 PM

That is a very nice piece. A word of warning about reetching. Traditional etchants can and do initiate corrosion, which is why it is unacceptable in the museum world. I have, however, developed a museum acceptable method that is noninterventive (conservator term). However, the pattern will not be as visable as traditional etching, but the reflectiveness of the blade is better and the substance used is often used for the conservation of archaeological iron. What ever you decide to do, be careful.

Jens Nordlunde · 12th March 2005, 05:11 PM

Hello Ann, and thanks for your warning comments - they are well placed, as one have to be/should be very careful when eatching anew - only a pity for us Europeans that you live in the States

.

Jens Nordlunde · 20th May 2018, 04:18 PM

I think it will be easier for you to see the difference of the katars if I show all four katars on plate 25. The three other katars shown are said to be from Delhi.

francantolin · 21st May 2018, 12:48 PM

Hello and Thank you Jens !

Doc

NavdeepBal · 31st May 2018, 09:10 PM

Your katar seems to have written on it “सीरा मेरा हा?” Cant really tell what the last letter is but the first word says seeraa, which doesnt make sense so i thought it might be Sita, who is Ram’s wife. Sita is also worshipped alongside Ram so that is very likely. The second word says Mera meaning mine or my. I could only figure out the first letter, being Haa. If mera is the second word, maybe its suppose to say my protector or lord, but the first letter was a H and no word related to protection begins with a h as far as i know. Maybe when saying Haath meaning hand, when using the phrase, “keeps his/her hand over my head” which is also common. But inscriptions in koftgari are almost always hard to read. But this might just say “Sita is my protector” or “Sita is my Mother”.

12th March 2005, 12:13 AM	#1
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 295	A worthy kattar for comment Here's a kattar (Katar? khattar? I've seen several spellings) That I picked up three years ago. The koftgari is excellent, and the blade is very fine wootz, with a massive armor-piercing point. I believe that the koftgari on the side shows the imperial family's parasol. The detail is done in several colors of gold, and the small inscription in Devanagari script was translated for me as "Ram protect me". I have a couple of questions. Would it be feasible to etch the blade to bring out the wootz pattern better? should it even be done? I welcome all comments! Attached Images

12th March 2005, 01:02 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	You have an old and very nice katar – congratulation. The midrib on the blade is the ‘Kundalini flame’ or the ‘Tree of life’ springing from a lotus bud. I agree with RSword that the question about etching or not is a difficult one. You know what you have, but can’t be sure of what you will get. Normally, if the pattern is very week, I would etch the blade – but the decision is yours. I am not sure that it is umbrellas shown on the side guards; my guess is that it is flowers, but I am not sure. Have a look at the picture shown, do you think it is umbrellas or do you think it is flowers? I think they are flowers. It may be easier for you to see if I add the picture - sorry . Attached Images Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 12th March 2005 at 01:14 PM.

12th March 2005, 02:51 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	I remembered to have see the decoration on the side guards before in one of my books – but in which? I started with Hendley, and in the second I found. ‘Damascene Work in India’ it is on plate 25. Here is what he writes about it. ‘Hindu thrusting dagger. False damascening in gold from Kotha, a great State, an offshot from Boondi in Rajputana; cost Rs. 50. Here gold of different tints has been employed with good effect.’ Using a magnifying glass I can't see that the two side guards can be closer to each other. Even the number of flowers seem to be the same. Sorry, I forgot, the book was printed in 1892. Attached Images

12th March 2005, 05:11 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Hello Ann, and thanks for your warning comments - they are well placed, as one have to be/should be very careful when eatching anew - only a pity for us Europeans that you live in the States.

20th May 2018, 04:18 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	I think it will be easier for you to see the difference of the katars if I show all four katars on plate 25. The three other katars shown are said to be from Delhi. Attached Images

12th March 2005, 12:41 AM	#2
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Lovely Katar. In regards to the wootz, it is hard to say without close up shots of the pattern. Often in Katars, though, the wootz would only be visible in the fullering and the edges would be polished bright. Indian wootz tends to be of low contrast to begin with so if the pattern is consistent in the fullering, you may not get any additional "pop" by etching it. However, if the wootz is barely visible at all, you might get a good "pop" by etching it. However, I advise leaving it up to the professionals. Especially on a piece as nice as this.

12th March 2005, 04:59 PM	#5
Ann Feuerbach Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 133	That is a very nice piece. A word of warning about reetching. Traditional etchants can and do initiate corrosion, which is why it is unacceptable in the museum world. I have, however, developed a museum acceptable method that is noninterventive (conservator term). However, the pattern will not be as visable as traditional etching, but the reflectiveness of the blade is better and the substance used is often used for the conservation of archaeological iron. What ever you decide to do, be careful.

21st May 2018, 12:48 PM	#8
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 819	Hello and Thank you Jens ! Doc

31st May 2018, 09:10 PM	#9
NavdeepBal Member Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 34	Your katar seems to have written on it “सीरा मेरा हा?” Cant really tell what the last letter is but the first word says seeraa, which doesnt make sense so i thought it might be Sita, who is Ram’s wife. Sita is also worshipped alongside Ram so that is very likely. The second word says Mera meaning mine or my. I could only figure out the first letter, being Haa. If mera is the second word, maybe its suppose to say my protector or lord, but the first letter was a H and no word related to protection begins with a h as far as i know. Maybe when saying Haath meaning hand, when using the phrase, “keeps his/her hand over my head” which is also common. But inscriptions in koftgari are almost always hard to read. But this might just say “Sita is my protector” or “Sita is my Mother”.