Some items from Dan Morphy's auction

ariel · 11th July 2016, 05:02 PM

It just ended.
There were some fantastically interesting pieces that were very poorly described and " undervalued" ( I think on purpose).
Nevertheless, astute bidders found them:-)

Here is one: kilij presented to some W.B. Barham on September 14, 1933 by Mehmet Ali, Pasha of Egypt.
I do not wish to go into long explanation who this Mehmet Ali was, but IMHO it is just like getting a presentation sword from George Washington, Queen Victoria or Napoleon Bonaparte

$4000 + 22% premium...
I wish I could.....

ariel · 11th July 2016, 05:09 PM

Mughal Tulwar with enamel, wootz and diamonds(?????)

$27,000 +premium

ariel · 11th July 2016, 05:13 PM

Daghestani Khmali.
$2250 + premium

ariel · 11th July 2016, 05:18 PM

Indo-Persian Shamshir with enamel ( Lahore?)

$3,750 + ...

ariel · 11th July 2016, 05:20 PM

And more.....

mariusgmioc · 11th July 2016, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Mughal Tulwar with enamel, wootz and diamonds(?????)

$27,000 +premium

Carbochon diamonds?! I fully agree with your ?????!

... well maybe...

I bid for some lots but unfortunately, they moved out of my reach quite quickly.

Thank you for sharing the photos!

Battara · 11th July 2016, 08:16 PM

They could be diamonds, although I think it more likely quartz.

Thanks for these pictures Ariel!

mariusgmioc · 11th July 2016, 08:59 PM

Some more I liked...

estcrh · 12th July 2016, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Mughal Tulwar with enamel, wootz and diamonds(?????)

$27,000 +premium

Ariel, wasnt it $30,000??? If anyone can explain why this particular sword was sooo exciting I would be glad to hear it.

mariusgmioc · 12th July 2016, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Ariel, wasnt it $30,000??? If anyone can explain why this particular sword was sooo exciting I would be glad to hear it.

One word: DIAMONDS...

Roland_M · 12th July 2016, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Mughal Tulwar with enamel, wootz and diamonds(?????)

$27,000 +premium

What kind of warrior is wearing a sword with blue enamel and diamonds? Is this a sword for a female warrior or a warrior from the other side?

Roland

estcrh · 12th July 2016, 09:15 AM

Here is a link to the auction and the sales prices. There were some good deals and some very questionable high prices, the auction house also did not do the sellers any favors with their bad descriptions, tiny images, throwing two or more items such as swords together so you would have to buy one or more items you did not want in order to get the one you wanted, especially mixing unrelated items together like a European sword and an Indo-Persian sword. Several chain armors were crumpled up so you could not see any details, others did not show or describe the links....etc.

https://morphyauctions.hibid.com/cat...rder=2&ipp=100

mariusgmioc · 12th July 2016, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Here is a link to the auction and the sales prices. There were some good deals and some very questionable high prices, the auction house also did not do the sellers any favors with their bad descriptions, tiny images, throwing two or more items such as swords together so you would have to buy one or more items you did not want in order to get the one you wanted, especially mixing unrelated items together like a European sword and an Indo-Persian sword. Several chain armors were crumpled up so you could not see any details, others did not show or describe the links....etc.

https://morphyauctions.hibid.com/cat...rder=2&ipp=100

Couldn't agree more!

estcrh · 12th July 2016, 09:21 AM

$32,940 + commission which brings it close to $40,000, no mention of "diamonds" or gems, or even stones...humm??? Maybe something in the inscription?

mariusgmioc · 12th July 2016, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

What kind of warrior is wearing a sword with blue enamel and diamonds? Is this a sword for a female warrior or a warrior from the other side?

Roland

Hello Roland,

You forget that Indians, and many other Easteneers, have different estethical standards than Europeans. So most Indians would love richly coloured and lavishly decorated items that would make an European stare in shock.

I wouldn't be surprised if this sword was aquired by a Chinese or Indian millionaire, for whom the mere sky high price would have been enough of an incentive to buy it.

PS: And I don't think is even wootz or pattern welded...

estcrh · 12th July 2016, 10:30 AM

Here is a perfect example of the lack of knowledge displayed by this auction house. This is NOT in any way "Indo-Persian" and I do not see any "metal chain".

ariel · 12th July 2016, 11:02 AM

There once was a study of auction bidding. Apparently, the real worth of any item is the mean of all bids, from the opening to the final. If this is true, the winner always overplays due to the "feeding frenzy". Indeed, the number of bids on this sword vastly exceeded any other "competition". It was the " in for a penny, in for a pound" situation.

But be it as it may, and despite the fact that there are damages to the enamel and that most gems were lost, such a handle together with the original en suite scabbard are extremely rare.

I can see an enthusiastic collector ready to pay a bundle and and a half for it.

And, BTW, $32,940 is the winning bid of 27,000 + 5,940 ( 22% commission on Live Auctioneers). The total is "price realized".
And yes, it is wootz: look at the left side of the close-up of the blade. It needs good etching, of course.
Lahore and Jaipur enamels are extremely valuable, and highly-embellished weapons were obligatory for the uppermost class of Indian nobility. This tulwar was not intended for battle use.

ariel · 12th July 2016, 11:27 AM

As to the alleged "lack of knowledge" by the auction, it reminds me of an old joke about a multimillionaire who explains his success:" I buy something for $100, sell it for $1000.. What is my profit? 10%? That's enough for me"

This auction attracted professional collectors and dealers of militaria, and those knew exactly what was for sale and bid against each other. The lowest estimates were just a bait.

BANDOOK · 12th July 2016, 12:06 PM

ARIEL U NAILED IT,THE LOW RESERVES WERE THE PERFECT BAIT TO GET THE COLLECTORS INTERESTED,SUCH HIGH PRICES INDICATE THAT THERE WAS LOTS OF COMPETITION AND THE AUCTION HOUSE WAS SUCCESSFUL IN ATTRACTING A LOT OF PEOPLE,LIKE THE CHINESE THE INDIANS ARE BUYING BACK THEIR WEAPONS AND HERITAGE AS MOST OF THE BEST ANTIQUES ARE AVAILABLE OVERSEAS .THE PRESENT INDIAN LAW NOW ALLOWS ANTIQUES EXCEEDING 100 YEARS TO BE LEGALLY IMPORTED INTO THE COUNTRY,THIS HAPPENED AFTER TIPPU SULTANS SWORD WAS BOUGHT AT AUCTION IN LONDON BY AN INDIAN BILLIONAIRE WHO LATER GIFTED IT BACK TO THE GOVT OF INDIA ,HE PAID APPROX 156,000 POUNDS.
REGARDS

mariusgmioc · 12th July 2016, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

And yes, it is wootz: look at the left side of the close-up of the blade. It needs good etching, of course.

It may be wootz but the photo is not convincing at all.

But you are right when you are talking about bidding frenzy. Anyhow, since it wasn't me placing the winning bid, it's not really my concern whether it was worth it or not, but I still think that is hugely overpriced.

estcrh · 12th July 2016, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

r it.

And, BTW, $32,940 is the winning bid of 27,000 + 5,940 ( 22% commission on Live Auctioneers). The total is "price realized".

You are right!!!

estcrh · 12th July 2016, 01:54 PM

Ottoman 18th Century Tufek Miquelet Musket....or is it???? Another glaring mistake perhaps. The shape of the butt and the neillo barrel bands says Circassian to me.

10/16” smoothbore, 41-3/4” barrel with three niello capucines and marked on top near breech 371215. Tang with koftgari panel. Figured hardwood stock with ivory butt. Miquelet flint mechanism. Ball trigger. Steel ramrod with cylinder tip. Three wedge escutcheons but no wedges. Stock with numerous gold spot inlays. Barrel cleaned. Flint mechanism inoperable. Wedges missing. Stock with wear and scuffs. Old Wallis & Wallis auction tag. Condition Fair to Good

mariusgmioc · 12th July 2016, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Ottoman 18th Century Tufek Miquelet Musket....or is it???? Another glaring mistake perhaps. The shape of the butt and the neillo barrel bands says Circassian to me.

Doesn't look Ottoman at all to me.

But I guess most auction houses make some glaring mistakes quite frequently. I have spotted them at Czerny's, HH, Thomas del Mar, Bonhams and Christie's... so nothing new or surprising.

PS: Even Elgood has made some mistakes...

Tim Simmons · 12th July 2016, 03:10 PM

Agree with Battara most unlikely to be diamonds so poorly mounted in brass.

11th July 2016, 05:02 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Some items from Dan Morphy's auction It just ended. There were some fantastically interesting pieces that were very poorly described and " undervalued" ( I think on purpose). Nevertheless, astute bidders found them:-) Here is one: kilij presented to some W.B. Barham on September 14, 1933 by Mehmet Ali, Pasha of Egypt. I do not wish to go into long explanation who this Mehmet Ali was, but IMHO it is just like getting a presentation sword from George Washington, Queen Victoria or Napoleon Bonaparte $4000 + 22% premium... I wish I could..... Attached Images Last edited by ariel; 11th July 2016 at 05:19 PM.

11th July 2016, 05:09 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Mughal Tulwar with enamel, wootz and diamonds(?????) $27,000 +premium Attached Images

11th July 2016, 05:13 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Daghestani Khmali. $2250 + premium Attached Images

11th July 2016, 05:18 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Indo-Persian Shamshir with enamel ( Lahore?) $3,750 + ... Attached Images

11th July 2016, 08:59 PM	#8
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,870	Some more I liked... Attached Images

11th July 2016, 05:20 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	And more.....

11th July 2016, 08:16 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	They could be diamonds, although I think it more likely quartz. Thanks for these pictures Ariel!

12th July 2016, 09:15 AM	#12
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	Here is a link to the auction and the sales prices. There were some good deals and some very questionable high prices, the auction house also did not do the sellers any favors with their bad descriptions, tiny images, throwing two or more items such as swords together so you would have to buy one or more items you did not want in order to get the one you wanted, especially mixing unrelated items together like a European sword and an Indo-Persian sword. Several chain armors were crumpled up so you could not see any details, others did not show or describe the links....etc. https://morphyauctions.hibid.com/cat...rder=2&ipp=100

12th July 2016, 09:21 AM	#14
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	$32,940 + commission which brings it close to $40,000, no mention of "diamonds" or gems, or even stones...humm??? Maybe something in the inscription? Attached Images

12th July 2016, 10:30 AM	#16
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	Here is a perfect example of the lack of knowledge displayed by this auction house. This is NOT in any way "Indo-Persian" and I do not see any "metal chain". Attached Images

12th July 2016, 11:02 AM	#17
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	There once was a study of auction bidding. Apparently, the real worth of any item is the mean of all bids, from the opening to the final. If this is true, the winner always overplays due to the "feeding frenzy". Indeed, the number of bids on this sword vastly exceeded any other "competition". It was the " in for a penny, in for a pound" situation. But be it as it may, and despite the fact that there are damages to the enamel and that most gems were lost, such a handle together with the original en suite scabbard are extremely rare. I can see an enthusiastic collector ready to pay a bundle and and a half for it. And, BTW, $32,940 is the winning bid of 27,000 + 5,940 ( 22% commission on Live Auctioneers). The total is "price realized". And yes, it is wootz: look at the left side of the close-up of the blade. It needs good etching, of course. Lahore and Jaipur enamels are extremely valuable, and highly-embellished weapons were obligatory for the uppermost class of Indian nobility. This tulwar was not intended for battle use. Last edited by ariel; 12th July 2016 at 11:18 AM.

12th July 2016, 11:27 AM	#18
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	As to the alleged "lack of knowledge" by the auction, it reminds me of an old joke about a multimillionaire who explains his success:" I buy something for $100, sell it for $1000.. What is my profit? 10%? That's enough for me" This auction attracted professional collectors and dealers of militaria, and those knew exactly what was for sale and bid against each other. The lowest estimates were just a bait.

12th July 2016, 12:06 PM	#19
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	ARIEL U NAILED IT,THE LOW RESERVES WERE THE PERFECT BAIT TO GET THE COLLECTORS INTERESTED,SUCH HIGH PRICES INDICATE THAT THERE WAS LOTS OF COMPETITION AND THE AUCTION HOUSE WAS SUCCESSFUL IN ATTRACTING A LOT OF PEOPLE,LIKE THE CHINESE THE INDIANS ARE BUYING BACK THEIR WEAPONS AND HERITAGE AS MOST OF THE BEST ANTIQUES ARE AVAILABLE OVERSEAS .THE PRESENT INDIAN LAW NOW ALLOWS ANTIQUES EXCEEDING 100 YEARS TO BE LEGALLY IMPORTED INTO THE COUNTRY,THIS HAPPENED AFTER TIPPU SULTANS SWORD WAS BOUGHT AT AUCTION IN LONDON BY AN INDIAN BILLIONAIRE WHO LATER GIFTED IT BACK TO THE GOVT OF INDIA ,HE PAID APPROX 156,000 POUNDS. REGARDS

12th July 2016, 01:54 PM	#22
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	Ottoman 18th Century Tufek Miquelet Musket....or is it???? Another glaring mistake perhaps. The shape of the butt and the neillo barrel bands says Circassian to me. 10/16” smoothbore, 41-3/4” barrel with three niello capucines and marked on top near breech 371215. Tang with koftgari panel. Figured hardwood stock with ivory butt. Miquelet flint mechanism. Ball trigger. Steel ramrod with cylinder tip. Three wedge escutcheons but no wedges. Stock with numerous gold spot inlays. Barrel cleaned. Flint mechanism inoperable. Wedges missing. Stock with wear and scuffs. Old Wallis & Wallis auction tag. Condition Fair to Good Attached Images Last edited by estcrh; 12th July 2016 at 02:04 PM.

12th July 2016, 03:10 PM	#24
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Agree with Battara most unlikely to be diamonds so poorly mounted in brass.