Southeast Asian caplock arm

[pbleed]

This is a snapshot of the the entire arm. I doubt that this arm is in any serious way linkable to Japan. I suspect that one or another of its previous owners felt it "looked" odd and Asian and so, "Japanese." It is unmarked save for embellishment to the brass inlay along the lower stock edge and lock counter-plate. It certainly looks not at all martial.And it does not look like a "primitive" or ethnographic weapon.

[Richard G]

It seems an exceptionally long lock, or are the photo's giving a distorted impression? It would be interesting to see what the other side looks like.
Best wishes
Richard

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Richard G

It seems an exceptionally long lock, or are the photo's giving a distorted impression? It would be interesting to see what the other side looks like.
Best wishes
Richard

Richard, another odd thing is the extraordinarily long "neck" attached to the bolster, terminating in the nipple. I've never seen such a feature on a European or British made gun, have you?

The overall proportions of the piece also lead me to believe that this might have been produced in a non-Western country. Indian-made guns and pistols in the English style are well-known. I have also seen that in the Dutch colony of Batavia (now Indonesia), a few local artisans achieved a high level of skill in fabricating European-style firearms to local taste, on occasion making barrels of pamor steel for the better ones.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Philip

Richard, another odd thing is the extraordinarily long "neck" attached to the bolster, terminating in the nipple. I've never seen such a feature on a European or British made gun, have you?

The overall proportions of the piece also lead me to believe that this might have been produced in a non-Western country. Indian-made guns and pistols in the English style are well-known. I have also seen that in the Dutch colony of Batavia (now Indonesia), a few local artisans achieved a high level of skill in fabricating European-style firearms to local taste, on occasion making barrels of pamor steel for the better ones.

Philip,
This is what I was trying to imply earlier in the thread. Absent maker's marks, I think this is not a European piece. Of course, marks are not always present on European muskets, rifles and shot guns, but in this case there are other features that seem not quite right. Apart from those already mentioned, the semi-grip stock would be unusual for a European shot gun where a straight grip ("English grip") was favored. The semi-grip on this gun also looks rather "chunky" to me and not very comfortable. However, Remington did produce a percussion shotgun with a semi-grip stock in various calibers in the late 19th C. Added to this is an unusually long (at least for a shotgun) fore-end of the stock.
Like many replicas/reproductions of European arms (guns, swords, knives, etc.) made in S. Asia and S.E. Asia, one often gets the impression that they are not quite "right;" close but no cigar! Perhaps the maker was more familiar with rifle stocks and used that template to create this shotgun in a somewhat European style which may explain the semi-grip and long fore-end.

[Richard G]

Originally Posted by Philip

Richard, another odd thing is the extraordinarily long "neck" attached to the bolster, terminating in the nipple. I've never seen such a feature on a European or British made gun, have you?

The overall proportions of the piece also lead me to believe that this might have been produced in a non-Western country. Indian-made guns and pistols in the English style are well-known. I have also seen that in the Dutch colony of Batavia (now Indonesia), a few local artisans achieved a high level of skill in fabricating European-style firearms to local taste, on occasion making barrels of pamor steel for the better ones.

I agree Philip. The longer the 'neck, the greater the chance of a fulminate cap failing to ignite a charge . The only mechanism I can think of with this sort of long 'neck' is the Snider breech, which, of course, contains a firing pin.
Overall, I don't see any reason why it should not be a Thai made gun in a European style.
Best wishes
Richard

[Philip]

Originally Posted by pbleed

This is a snapshot of the the entire arm. I doubt that this arm is in any serious way linkable to Japan. I suspect that one or another of its previous owners felt it "looked" odd and Asian and so, "Japanese." It is unmarked save for embellishment to the brass inlay along the lower stock edge and lock counter-plate. It certainly looks not at all martial.And it does not look like a "primitive" or ethnographic weapon.

In many of your pics, the wood looks a bit dark. Have you taken the gun apart? I wonder what the color of the wood is on the protected interior surfaces. Having had it in hand, what does the density and texture of the wood feel like? What I'm trying to nail down is whether or not the stock could be of a timber other than European walnut. Such as some SE Asian variety of rosewood or mahogany, perhaps. Do you have any thoughts on the matter?