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Old 5th April 2013, 11:52 AM   #1
Cerjak
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Default 2 Borneo swords for comment..

Hi everybody ,I just receive this 2 mandau swords
The first one his with 78 cm over all and 62 cm for the blade
the second is with 87 cm and a blade about 71 cm.
Unfortunately they don' have the scabbard
Any comment about age and origin will be welcome.
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Old 5th April 2013, 11:54 AM   #2
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Default more pics

mores pics
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Old 5th April 2013, 11:58 AM   #3
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last pics
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Old 5th April 2013, 12:00 PM   #4
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I like them already.
Do you have pictures of the complete blade + handle ?


(I am missing the blade tips, and would love to discuss them )
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Old 5th April 2013, 02:43 PM   #5
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Default new pictures

AS MOTIV
I will start with pictures from the 2 swords and after one by one I hope it will be more convenient for you

Regards

Cerjak
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Old 5th April 2013, 02:49 PM   #6
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Old 5th April 2013, 02:53 PM   #7
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Default the second sword alone

the second sword alone
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Old 5th April 2013, 02:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif


(I am missing the blade tips, and would love to discuss them )



I think it has Murut flavour in a Bahau way.... (I meant the river Bahau and not the tribe...)


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Old 5th April 2013, 02:58 PM   #9
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Now seriously!
Nice blades Cerjak.

Upper one Kenya tribe from the Baram area, lower one from the Ibans.

Maurice

Last edited by Maurice : 5th April 2013 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 5th April 2013, 07:10 PM   #10
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Nice examples and Maurice has already placed them (although I DO sense a bit Murut-influence ). Too bad there are no scabbards; they can have some nice carvings on them.

Last edited by David : 5th April 2013 at 07:56 PM. Reason: Don't even go there in jest Indy!
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Old 5th April 2013, 08:42 PM   #11
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Thumbs down Moderator Warning

It would be a shame to lock this great thread due to subtle (and not-so-subtle) jibes between certain members (you know who you are).

This issue is now on my "radar" and I am watching closely. Leave your personal disputes at the door when you come here. Take your personal disputes elsewhere if they originate here.

This is not the place for your internecine battles, and I truly could not care less "who started it." If you are unwilling or unable to follow this request, I will make the decision for you.

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Old 5th April 2013, 09:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice
Upper one Kenya tribe from the Baram area, lower one from the Ibans.

Maurice


Thanks Cerjak for the abundance of pictures.

To avoid any confusion,
Maurice's identification (upper and lower) refers to the following order of mandaus :
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Old 6th April 2013, 12:02 AM   #13
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For all of us, what specifically says "Kenyah" or "Iban" about each piece? Which features make them unique to those tribes??
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Old 6th April 2013, 05:00 AM   #14
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...and for the record are we looking at mandaus here or parangs. It has always been my understanding that mandaus have concave/convex blades.
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Old 6th April 2013, 07:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesS
For all of us, what specifically says "Kenyah" or "Iban" about each piece? Which features make them unique to those tribes??


Hi Charles and David,

The Baram Kenja piece is typical for this area because of the "wild" carvings in combination with all other aspects (like the shape) of the handle.
Ofcourse other tribes hilts could be wildly carved, but the way this one is carved tells me it's from the Kenja's from the Baram area.
The shape of the blade in combination with the decoration and inlay in the blade, also match perfectly with the hilt.
David, according Shelford this one we could call "Baieng".

The Iban parang (for the correct name we should ask Michael, but a parang I'd call it as it isn't a mandau), has a niabor like hilt. Also the bladeshape/decoration is the right one for this area.

Maurice

Last edited by Maurice : 6th April 2013 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 6th April 2013, 09:48 AM   #16
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Nice finds Cerjak!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice
snip

The Iban parang (for the correct name we should ask Michael, but a parang I'd call it as it isn't a mandau), has a niabor like hilt. Also the bladeshape/decoration is the right one for this area.

Maurice


I agree with Maurice. The Iban parang I would classify as a tilang kamarau (flat blade, protrusion near the handle and a downward curved tip).

Michael
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Old 6th April 2013, 05:14 PM   #17
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Maurice ,asomotif & Michael
many thanks for your help so origin it's solve but about age I know that it is quiet dificult with ethnographic arms but would like to know your opinion and also the way you are using to determinate it
Kind regards
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Old 6th April 2013, 09:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice
Hi Charles and David,

The Baram Kenja piece is typical for this area because of the "wild" carvings in combination with all other aspects (like the shape) of the handle.
Ofcourse other tribes hilts could be wildly carved, but the way this one is carved tells me it's from the Kenja's from the Baram area.
The shape of the blade in combination with the decoration and inlay in the blade, also match perfectly with the hilt.
David, according Shelford this one we could call "Baieng".

The Iban parang (for the correct name we should ask Michael, but a parang I'd call it as it isn't a mandau), has a niabor like hilt. Also the bladeshape/decoration is the right one for this area.

Maurice


a small addition to Maurice good explanation.... one of the specific features in Kenya handlecarving is that in most cases the used motifs are quite simple like hooks,teeth and scrolls that mostly are used to fill spaces.
handles mostly symmetric carved.
Iban carving shows a much richer variation of motifs. Handles maybe carved symmetric but also asymmetric.

Arjan
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