Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 6th November 2018, 04:51 PM   #1
MichaelZWilliamson
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 50
Default Identifying My Acquisitions

Over several years, I've acquired the following weapons from that region. I know a little about them, but I'd like better, more detailed information--location, era, relevance. Any input appreciated.

This first one I'm told is hippo tooth for the hilt. There was a small rust patch near the tip that I cleaned, etched and darkened.
Attached Images
         
MichaelZWilliamson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2018, 09:03 PM   #2
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,408
Default

Hello Michael,

welcome to the forum. Your keris is from East Java or Madura, the handle is from bone or more probable from deer antler but for sure not hippo tooth. The metal in the back of the pendok isn't original, I would try to remove it carefully.

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2018, 09:04 PM   #3
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,258
Smile

Hi Michael, welcome.
A picture of the entire blade, point upward would be helpful.

I'm not sure about the material of the handle; I think I see pores at the back in your third picture of it which would lead me to think it may be bone.

If you're going to submit pictures of other keris's please start a separate thread for each one.

Glad to have you here!
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2018, 11:36 PM   #4
MichaelZWilliamson
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 50
Default

Here's one of the entire weapon, which I forgot to post.
Attached Images
 
MichaelZWilliamson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2018, 11:47 PM   #5
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Hi Michael. Welcome to the form. I am pretty much in agreement with what the others have said here. I'd have to see better, sharper close-ups, but the hilt does not look ivory to me and antler or bone is more probably. This style of hilt is known as "donoriko" and they are fairly desirable, though the ivory ones more so. It does seem to be fairly well carved.
As Detlef has stated, this is East Jawa dress (Madura is considered apart of East Jawa). It does appear that someone added a metal hanging tab onto the back of the metal sheath cover (pendok). I can't tell what they used to attach this piece, but if it was some kind of epoxy you may be able to remove it.
I think you keris is at least 19th century. It is not a high end keris so probably did not belong to anyone of much importance. The status of keris begin in the highest levels of the the kraton (palace) where it's relevance and significance to the culture can be at the highest levels, but it trickles down into common society to the everyday Joe. Every man would have a keris in this era of East Jawa. It represented him, his family line and his place in society.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th November 2018, 11:51 PM   #6
MichaelZWilliamson
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 50
Default

Thanks for the welcomes and info.

Should I attempt to remove the repousse sleeve and desolder the hanger? I know it's not original, but I am reluctant to apply heat without knowing the alloy.
MichaelZWilliamson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2018, 02:05 AM   #7
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,675
Default

G'day Michael.

I believe the embossed pendok (sleeve) is brass, or possibly mamas.

I believe the hanger has been attached with ordinary soft solder.

I would heat the hanger with a soldering iron and lift the hanger off as it softened. There will be a residue of solder left, maybe heat with a torch and brush it off, pick off the little bits. Shouldn't be too difficult.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2018, 02:09 AM   #8
MichaelZWilliamson
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 50
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
G'day Michael.

I believe the embossed pendok (sleeve) is brass, or possibly mamas.

I believe the hanger has been attached with ordinary soft solder.

I would heat the hanger with a soldering iron and lift the hanger off as it softened. There will be a residue of solder left, maybe heat with a torch and brush it off, pick off the little bits. Shouldn't be too difficult.
If I can desolder it, removing the residue will be easy. I'll try that this week.

Thanks.
MichaelZWilliamson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2018, 11:55 AM   #9
Paul B.
Member
 
Paul B.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 205
Default

A Donoriko with an image of a cockatoo is not that common, usually a profil image of a horse (Kudah) is seen.

The back hanger is not that much of a problem but the bumped ( and sidewise cracks) are! This is a (poor quality) Banyumas pendok I think and the pointing scratches at the front top part tend to imitate those sleeve pendoks from Pesisiran area?

The handle is bone or antler for sure.

What is the the wadidang of the blade showing? A reforging / welding patch?
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Paul B.; 7th November 2018 at 01:56 PM.
Paul B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2018, 01:57 PM   #10
Paul B.
Member
 
Paul B.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 205
Default

The spot is shown herewith. Or is this thick black corrosion?
Attached Images
 
Paul B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2018, 02:13 PM   #11
MichaelZWilliamson
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 50
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B.
The spot is shown herewith. Or is this thick black corrosion?
Can you please clarify terminology as you go? I know little on this particular era.

That spot appears to just be pitting. There are a couple of other spots down the blade.
MichaelZWilliamson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2018, 03:20 PM   #12
Paul B.
Member
 
Paul B.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 205
Default

Check this reference from our knowledgeable friend Alan:

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerisglossary.html
Paul B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2018, 03:38 PM   #13
MichaelZWilliamson
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 50
Default

Thank you.
MichaelZWilliamson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2018, 10:12 PM   #14
MichaelZWilliamson
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 50
Default

Closeups of the hilt. It may be antler, but there's very little core I can see. I'd be interested in which type it is.

Had to compress the files. Hopefully they're still clear enough.
Attached Images
       
MichaelZWilliamson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2018, 01:02 AM   #15
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

From the close-ups it looks more like bone to my eye Michael.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2018, 02:17 AM   #16
MichaelZWilliamson
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 50
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
From the close-ups it looks more like bone to my eye Michael.
A terminal piece of long bone? That would make sense, since what looks like the core is very small.
MichaelZWilliamson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2018, 08:05 AM   #17
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
Default

I agree with David, the pores and the black decayed area at the back are typical of buffalo bone.
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2018, 08:38 AM   #18
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,408
Default

Yes, I agree as well with David.
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th November 2018, 02:18 PM   #19
MichaelZWilliamson
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 50
Default

Thanks for all the information on this piece.
MichaelZWilliamson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.