Possibly Chinese Pichok?

RobT · 1st May 2022, 06:25 PM

Hi All,

I just picked up this pichok from a local flea market. It appears to be very new and has "2001" (in Hindu/Arabic numerals) dot engraved on one side of the blade. That notwithstanding, there are some things that are intriguing about the piece.
The first thing that caught my eye is the sturdy construction. There is no backstrap. The tang tapers from over 1cm (over 3/8") thick at the butt to just over 4.76cm (over 1/8") at the base of the blade. The blade measures about 12.3cm (just under 4-7/8") long and also tapers distally. The butt and bolster halves appear to be solid brass not sheet. As you can imagine, the knife is heavy for its size (about 22.4cm, 8-7/8" OAL). The butt halves are held onto the tang by two steel rivets and bolsters are held on by one steel and one copper rivet. The center sections are horn and are held on by two copper rivets. As decoration, the horn scales have four dots which appear to be aluminum wrapped malachite plus a big pink disk (of unknown composition) between the dots. I am likewise unsure what the red dots in the brass are made of.
The second thing I noticed is the superb fit. Both the horn and the brass mate to the tang without gap. This is especially remarkable since the tang profile on the top is very different from the bottom profile.
But the thing that really surprised me is what appears to be Chinese characters engraved in brass on the blade. Is there a Chinese speaking Turkic group that uses pichok? Maybe the engraving on the blade and tang could provide a clue? I did a close-up of the writing. I doubt anyone can make it out but I would welcome a try. The sheath is leather and well made but, even though the knife fits, I am not sure it is original to the piece because the shape of the tip doesn't match the shape of the blade or the shape of other pichok sheaths I have seen. The tooling on the sheath sort of reminds me of Finnish designs.

Sincerely,
RobT

ariel · 1st May 2022, 06:54 PM

Uighurs?

gp · 1st May 2022, 07:08 PM

Mostly these are of Uzbek origin but as you mention Chinese characters it might well be an Uyghurian Pchak and originating from Yangigisar, an ancient Uyghur city in East Turkestan, which is very well known for making these Uyghur knives.The city has a tradition of gunsmiths and knifemakers passing down from generation to generation going back quite some centuries

ariel · 2nd May 2022, 12:27 PM

I have yet to see Uzbeki Р’chak or Tajiki Pichok with such massive blade. Hieroglyphs establish Uighur origin. And, yes, Yangisar.

I wonder whether knife manufacture is still present there: Uighurs are Muslims and were not very fond of total Chinese control. There were multiple acts if killing local Chinese functionaries, and currently a good chunk of Uighurs are in concentration camps and “ re-education camps” (which is the same). Ownership of “sharpies” is severely controlled. Google : “Authorities in Xinjiang Require Special Permits to Buy Kitchen Knives’’”. Knives are marked with laser—etched QR codes.

gp · 3rd May 2022, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

And, yes, Yangisar.

Yangigisar: not to be mistaken with the neighbouring province Yangishar.

Yangigisar (uygur ناھىيىسى ) of Yingjisha County (wale 县) - province Kashgar in Xinjiang Uygur autonomous area in China and wellknown for its production of tradional Uygur dagger-knives pchak

So Rob, it seems that you'r lucky and have a great catcht if you read the comment in the enclosed link! Congratulations!

https://www.farwestchina.com/travel/...nife-yengisar/

RobT · 3rd May 2022, 10:48 PM

Hi All,

Thanks for your responses. Based on the information you supplied, I went on line and found a site (What is the Pchak knife for? [https://uofa.ru/en/nozh-pchak-dlya-c...chnoi-raboty/]) which gives a pretty good overview of the history, construction, various types, and geographical distribution of Uzbek, Tajik, and Uyghur pchak and cords. The author thinks that the Uyghur knives are the most attractive. As it regards my knife, the site shows a Uyghur knife that is very similar and has the same brass inlay on the blade. Although it is of Uyghur manufacture, the sheath that came with my knife isn't for that type of blade (called a kayke). It is probably for a tugri or a tolbargi (willow leaf) blade. I have always wanted a good pchak and now I want more.

Sincerely,
RobT

gp · 4th May 2022, 07:43 PM

count me in...

I am also looking for a vintage or antique Uygur one but think it to be a most challenging endeavour
as it will be one requiring a lot of patience and a bag of money.
it had been discussed as well previously:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=pchak

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=pchak

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=pchak

1st May 2022, 06:25 PM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 452	Possibly Chinese Pichok? Hi All, I just picked up this pichok from a local flea market. It appears to be very new and has "2001" (in Hindu/Arabic numerals) dot engraved on one side of the blade. That notwithstanding, there are some things that are intriguing about the piece. The first thing that caught my eye is the sturdy construction. There is no backstrap. The tang tapers from over 1cm (over 3/8") thick at the butt to just over 4.76cm (over 1/8") at the base of the blade. The blade measures about 12.3cm (just under 4-7/8") long and also tapers distally. The butt and bolster halves appear to be solid brass not sheet. As you can imagine, the knife is heavy for its size (about 22.4cm, 8-7/8" OAL). The butt halves are held onto the tang by two steel rivets and bolsters are held on by one steel and one copper rivet. The center sections are horn and are held on by two copper rivets. As decoration, the horn scales have four dots which appear to be aluminum wrapped malachite plus a big pink disk (of unknown composition) between the dots. I am likewise unsure what the red dots in the brass are made of. The second thing I noticed is the superb fit. Both the horn and the brass mate to the tang without gap. This is especially remarkable since the tang profile on the top is very different from the bottom profile. But the thing that really surprised me is what appears to be Chinese characters engraved in brass on the blade. Is there a Chinese speaking Turkic group that uses pichok? Maybe the engraving on the blade and tang could provide a clue? I did a close-up of the writing. I doubt anyone can make it out but I would welcome a try. The sheath is leather and well made but, even though the knife fits, I am not sure it is original to the piece because the shape of the tip doesn't match the shape of the blade or the shape of other pichok sheaths I have seen. The tooling on the sheath sort of reminds me of Finnish designs. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

1st May 2022, 07:08 PM	#3
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 659	Mostly these are of Uzbek origin but as you mention Chinese characters it might well be an Uyghurian Pchak and originating from Yangigisar, an ancient Uyghur city in East Turkestan, which is very well known for making these Uyghur knives.The city has a tradition of gunsmiths and knifemakers passing down from generation to generation going back quite some centuries Last edited by gp; 1st May 2022 at 08:59 PM.

2nd May 2022, 12:27 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I have yet to see Uzbeki Р’chak or Tajiki Pichok with such massive blade. Hieroglyphs establish Uighur origin. And, yes, Yangisar. I wonder whether knife manufacture is still present there: Uighurs are Muslims and were not very fond of total Chinese control. There were multiple acts if killing local Chinese functionaries, and currently a good chunk of Uighurs are in concentration camps and “ re-education camps” (which is the same). Ownership of “sharpies” is severely controlled. Google : “Authorities in Xinjiang Require Special Permits to Buy Kitchen Knives’’”. Knives are marked with laser—etched QR codes. Last edited by ariel; 2nd May 2022 at 01:37 PM.

3rd May 2022, 10:48 PM	#6
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 452	Uyghur it is Hi All, Thanks for your responses. Based on the information you supplied, I went on line and found a site (What is the Pchak knife for? [https://uofa.ru/en/nozh-pchak-dlya-c...chnoi-raboty/]) which gives a pretty good overview of the history, construction, various types, and geographical distribution of Uzbek, Tajik, and Uyghur pchak and cords. The author thinks that the Uyghur knives are the most attractive. As it regards my knife, the site shows a Uyghur knife that is very similar and has the same brass inlay on the blade. Although it is of Uyghur manufacture, the sheath that came with my knife isn't for that type of blade (called a kayke). It is probably for a tugri or a tolbargi (willow leaf) blade. I have always wanted a good pchak and now I want more. Sincerely, RobT

1st May 2022, 06:54 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Uighurs?

4th May 2022, 07:43 PM	#7
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 659	count me in... I am also looking for a vintage or antique Uygur one but think it to be a most challenging endeavour as it will be one requiring a lot of patience and a bag of money. it had been discussed as well previously: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=pchak http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=pchak http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=pchak