Good old Phil.sword scabbard; 4 what type??

[Indianajones]

Hi all,
picked this good old Phil.scabbard up and wonder to what type of sword it belongs. Perhaps one of you knows . .??

I reckognise it being a quite old -1850's- and rarer type of scabbard as these look quite 'dull' and 'unaddorned' and therefore often seperated and thrown away? In the RMV in Leiden they have a sword with a similar type of scabbard which is -I believe- a bit broader, as is the knife.

In matter of fact this example also was in a box together with some rubbish and shells. No sword to go with it, (I asked ofcourse!)

Am looking forwardd to your replies!
Some measurements and info;

Total Lenght; 45 cm
Wide; 7 > 5.3 cm
Thick; 1.3 cm
Materials; light wood, leather w scalloped edges and impressed reliefs, quite thin animalskin, sewthread. Condition; excellent, only one small corner sidepiece missing at end.
Sword-opening; wide 5.8 cm (save) x 0.8 thick blade would fit in,
about 41.5 cm long (cavity inside runs til this length)

[laEspadaAncha]

While speculative, I would guess that based on the flat/convex single grind profile of the blade, its possibly Visayan in origin...

[Battara]

I was thinking the same thing.

[Indianajones]

Hi, thanks for the replies so far; Visayan?! It would not be for a 'tenegre'? That would be a kind of blade that would fit in, though havent found a tenegre with a similar sheath myself yet.
Hopefully someone is able to pin it down bit more specificly.

Will try to look up n scan that pic in RMV booklet.

[Royston]

Indianajones

It looks as though your sheath is missing parts. If you take all of the decoration off this sheath I do not think it would be that much different.

Regards
Roy

[Indianajones]

Hi Roy, hmmm interesting. I just had again a good look at the sheath for traces of missing parts but I really see any traces of missing pieces. Also no discoloration -as is just under the leather topcover on reverse; see pic 3- on top or bottom as sign.

I have looked up quite some tenegre's but most of them have metal or horn fittings around the wood and a metal end with studs. But I have learned from this forum that tenegre's can origin from diferent regions?!?

I did find this pic of a sword from Robert Coleman from an old thread which also looks quite like my scabbard, but still a disturbing(?) difference.

Thanks

[Lew]

Found this one that I use to have

[VANDOO]

YOUR SCABBARD WOULD BE FOR A WORK GRADE CHOPPER, NOT AS MUCH WORK GOES INTO THEM SO HORN FITTINGS, EXPENSIVE WOOD AND FANCY CARVINGS ARE NOT THE NORM. VISIAN BECAUSE OF THE LEATHER SLEAVE LIKELY TENEGRE FORM BLADE WITHOUT A FANCY MONSTER HEAD, BUT WITHOUT THE BLADE SO BASICALLY A VISIAN PRANG SCABBARD WOULD BE A SAFE GUESS UNTIL A EXACT DUPLICATE SHOWS UP.
I SUPPOSE YOU COULD TAKE IT APART TO SEE THE BLADE SHAPE BETTER BUT THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO STICH IT UP AGAIN UNLESS THE BANDS SLIDE OFF.

[Indianajones]

Hello, this is the Phil./malay sword I meant >see pic below< with a similar scabbard as mine, unfortunately they noted just one size. Anybody here has such a sword with scabbard and can share the measurements of it??
The pic in the book is just a bit too far off to be sure its the same and -although my scabbard looks pretty much the same- mine may not be wide enough.

Any other help/suggestions pls??!!?
Thanks in advance and for so far!

[VVV]

I have a resembling bolo like in the catalogue.
My sword is 23 1/2" overall with a 17" blade.
I am traveling at the moment so I can't measure the
scabbard but I will be back home in a couple of days.

Michael

[Indianajones]

Hi Michael,
oh wow so you have that second example I've ever seen; I have had one of those sword some time ago, but only the sword. Do you know their origin?

I have -later after sold it- found out it was used by kind of malay/Filipino pirates called 'Mayalos'. Only found ONE pic of a Mayalo wearing one (see left guy), but one has to look quite carefully to detect/reckognize. >>its better visible on d original pic that d handle type is d same<<

From your pics I have derived the measure; width of the scabbard would be approx. 2.5" (6.7cm) if I'm correct. This would be much wider than mine, with about a large cm/ half an inch. Though the scabbardstyle and materials used have a lot of similarities indeed.
Maybe those Malolos would also use another narrower kind of blade?!??

Getting close though and lets hope we'l ever find an answer (BEfore I sell it)

Thanks so much for the input!
Regards, Wouter

[VVV]

Thanks for the pictures.
It says "malayos" = malays.
AFAIK it's a negrito bolo.

Michael

[Indianajones]

Yes you'r right. Pictures were taken in Philippines and those guys indeed look negrito (Negrito chiefs often wore those high hats) but perhaps a group joined Malay seafarers.
Here's the pics addres; its an Adobedocument; 'El imaginario colonial.Fotografía en filipinas durante el periodo espanol'