spontoon

terry1956 · 23rd June 2011, 05:34 PM

hi, I picked up this spontoon some time back and to me it looks and feels wrong. the staff was a plastic varnish coated think with know age at all. but i am not sure of the blade and fittings. the cross arms have been stamped with the number 3. and there is a metal washer stamped out with a square hole which as split the metal ring which fits between the blade head and staff what do you all think. There is no sign of dust, or useage on the metal parts. what do you think, michael

M ELEY · 26th June 2011, 07:04 AM

Sorry, Terry, but I'm thinking repro. Although there were some types of spontoons and pikes with screw-in type fittings, they were primitive affairs. Everything about this piece screams 'new'. My 2 cents...

terry1956 · 26th June 2011, 07:46 AM

Hi. M Ely.yes thats my feeling. i bid on this from a well known uk arms and armour auction house with out viewing it first, when it was send to me weeks after i just had this feeling i had been done.
at the moment it is back with the auction house, i send it back on the same day, and they have had this item for over two months with nothing being done.
I will never ever buy anything without viewing it myself first again.
michael

M ELEY · 26th June 2011, 12:48 PM

Sorry to hear of your bad luck. Anyone that's collected for any time will eventually get served a bad deal eventually!

It's happened to me on several occasions. Glad you were able to return it. Seems strange that an auction house wouldn't screen their wares better...

terry1956 · 26th June 2011, 04:23 PM

hi, well i send it back to the auction house with a cover note stateing my feelings about the age of the item. they rang back saying they would send it to leeds armoury for dating, and I know that over 8 week have pasted and they have done nothing about it.
I plan to contact them again next week and set a dead line to deal with this all get a full refund on the item.
so the stories not over yet.
I know that a much larger auction house in london had an arms and armour auction this month, and a few so say 1st empire items did not sale on the day, and you know it, reproductions of the very same items can be got off the internet.
michael

Hotspur · 1st July 2011, 01:55 AM

Here is a thread from the past posted by forumnaut and collector Brian Rollanson. It has several pictures of his apart.

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?89616

While the thread is quite flatter and a bit shorter, the thread pitch seems spot on to that one. I would not necessarily dismiss it on the point of the threads as by the time of the 19th century spontoons, thread machining pretty well said and done (look t 19th century English fiirearms for instance).

Here are a couple of crappy pictures of my Hanwei reproduction that has a much finer screw thread along with a point to help guide the errant assembler. Brian's could have flattened a great deal just in use vs the one listed above that might be brand spanking new but still a couple of centuries old. We have all seen as new arms that are that old.

I am not familiar with other more recent reproductions of these but another trait to my own Hanwei (now discontinued but still on the shelves here and there) is that the langets are of mild stainless steel welded to the socket itself. That stymied me in going to age my own for my own purposes. I also added a fourth hole. I don't have great pictures of other period examples of the British model but they were manufactured abroad as well as in England. They supposedly saw service for half a century and were both hafted as "quarter" pike and half pike in length. The longer ones nine feet tall.

I'd love to see the haft fasteners of the one listed here and other examples. I ended up not fastening mine flush but used rose head nails but I see most originals now as flush rivets.

Was there any shoe on the haft? I wouldn't either necessarily say an orifginal was not rehafted. I think a lot of polearm collectors wonder the same things though and reproductions do go back in time.

Cheers

GC

terry1956 · 2nd July 2011, 04:59 PM

hi, sorry not for getting back sooner, been away. great link, I see that yours is the same shape etc, but the tread is finer, I have joined the other forum and hope to get some more infor from fellow members. thanks again, michael

23rd June 2011, 05:34 PM	#1
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	spontoon hi, I picked up this spontoon some time back and to me it looks and feels wrong. the staff was a plastic varnish coated think with know age at all. but i am not sure of the blade and fittings. the cross arms have been stamped with the number 3. and there is a metal washer stamped out with a square hole which as split the metal ring which fits between the blade head and staff what do you all think. There is no sign of dust, or useage on the metal parts. what do you think, michael Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 23rd June 2011 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Pictures direct upload.

26th June 2011, 07:46 AM	#3
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	spontoon Hi. M Ely.yes thats my feeling. i bid on this from a well known uk arms and armour auction house with out viewing it first, when it was send to me weeks after i just had this feeling i had been done. at the moment it is back with the auction house, i send it back on the same day, and they have had this item for over two months with nothing being done. I will never ever buy anything without viewing it myself first again. michael

26th June 2011, 04:23 PM	#5
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	in answer hi, well i send it back to the auction house with a cover note stateing my feelings about the age of the item. they rang back saying they would send it to leeds armoury for dating, and I know that over 8 week have pasted and they have done nothing about it. I plan to contact them again next week and set a dead line to deal with this all get a full refund on the item. so the stories not over yet. I know that a much larger auction house in london had an arms and armour auction this month, and a few so say 1st empire items did not sale on the day, and you know it, reproductions of the very same items can be got off the internet. michael

1st July 2011, 01:55 AM	#6
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 491	Here is a thread from the past posted by forumnaut and collector Brian Rollanson. It has several pictures of his apart. http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?89616 While the thread is quite flatter and a bit shorter, the thread pitch seems spot on to that one. I would not necessarily dismiss it on the point of the threads as by the time of the 19th century spontoons, thread machining pretty well said and done (look t 19th century English fiirearms for instance). Here are a couple of crappy pictures of my Hanwei reproduction that has a much finer screw thread along with a point to help guide the errant assembler. Brian's could have flattened a great deal just in use vs the one listed above that might be brand spanking new but still a couple of centuries old. We have all seen as new arms that are that old. I am not familiar with other more recent reproductions of these but another trait to my own Hanwei (now discontinued but still on the shelves here and there) is that the langets are of mild stainless steel welded to the socket itself. That stymied me in going to age my own for my own purposes. I also added a fourth hole. I don't have great pictures of other period examples of the British model but they were manufactured abroad as well as in England. They supposedly saw service for half a century and were both hafted as "quarter" pike and half pike in length. The longer ones nine feet tall. I'd love to see the haft fasteners of the one listed here and other examples. I ended up not fastening mine flush but used rose head nails but I see most originals now as flush rivets. Was there any shoe on the haft? I wouldn't either necessarily say an orifginal was not rehafted. I think a lot of polearm collectors wonder the same things though and reproductions do go back in time. Cheers GC Attached Images

2nd July 2011, 04:59 PM	#7
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	spontoon hi, sorry not for getting back sooner, been away. great link, I see that yours is the same shape etc, but the tread is finer, I have joined the other forum and hope to get some more infor from fellow members. thanks again, michael

26th June 2011, 07:04 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,076	Sorry, Terry, but I'm thinking repro. Although there were some types of spontoons and pikes with screw-in type fittings, they were primitive affairs. Everything about this piece screams 'new'. My 2 cents...

26th June 2011, 12:48 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,076	Sorry to hear of your bad luck. Anyone that's collected for any time will eventually get served a bad deal eventually! It's happened to me on several occasions. Glad you were able to return it. Seems strange that an auction house wouldn't screen their wares better...