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Old 5th July 2017, 03:58 PM   #1
kino
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Default Moro Kris with chevron pattern twist core

A recent topic on an Indian chevron blade prompted me to post this Moro kris with a twist chevron pattern blade.

My first impression is, the hilt is recent. It would be safe to say that the hilt is 20th century, however I suspect the bands to be older.
The blades dimensions and appearance would correspond to a 19th century manufacture.
There are several twist chevron patterns along the center panel of this blade. In between the chevrons could be monosteel. I have not done anything to this blade other than light oiling. I can't recall seeing a Moro kris with a similar blade pattern.
Results has been nonexistent when I searched the forum archives for the type.
Your thoughts?
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Old 5th July 2017, 04:47 PM   #2
Lee
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This is entirely new for me in a Moro kris as I have only seen this intermittent chevron pattern previously in Indian swords! Very nice!
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Old 6th July 2017, 01:50 AM   #3
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Hello Albert,

Again a superb kris!

Quote:
My first impression is, the hilt is recent. It would be safe to say that the hilt is 20th century, however I suspect the bands to be older.

I don't think the bands are really old - the whole hilt looks 20th c. to me.

I'd be tempted to replace it if a suitable antique hilt came along...

The lower clamp seems to be original; obviously, the upper one is missing.


Quote:
The blades dimensions and appearance would correspond to a 19th century manufacture.

I believe the blade is from the late 19th century.

Certainly Sulu - possibly Tawi-Tawi?


Quote:
There are several twist chevron patterns along the center panel of this blade. In between the chevrons could be monosteel. I have not done anything to this blade other than light oiling. I can't recall seeing a Moro kris with a similar blade pattern.

The first kris with this pamor for me, too!

I believe this exceptional blade deserves some gentle polishing and etching. I'd guess that the interspersed parts are highly refined iron rather than monosteel; only some detailed analysis will tell...

Regards,
Kai
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Old 6th July 2017, 04:35 AM   #4
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I'm glad you both think that it's nice in spite of the pittings.
I've been thinking about replacing the hilt as soon as an appropriate one comes along.
Kai, I'll take your advice and do some light cleaning and polishing.
Thanks.
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Old 7th July 2017, 01:18 PM   #5
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Hi Kino,

Nice and rare blade! The hilt is non-Moro but I think it is interesting. Is that a separate mendak or is it integrated into the hilt to represent one? Moro kris hilts do not have hilt-cups so this one might be of Indonesian or Malaysian origin. A rehilted moro blade perhaps?

Fernando
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Old 8th July 2017, 02:14 PM   #6
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Thanks Fernando.
I can't tell if the mendak like piece is separate or not. I tried to see if I could shift it left or right but it doesn't move, it's too tight.
Re-hilted? Yes, but where, is up to anyone's guess. The hilt looks like a modern gunong type version.
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Old 8th July 2017, 02:40 PM   #7
Jens Nordlunde
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Kino, this is really interesting. My knowledge of kris' is closse to nil, but I now and again have a look at the threads.
The chevron pattern is quite clear, and shows the pattern welded pieces and the mono pieces clearly - very nice.
I have been wondering why the combination is pattern welded and mono steel, but so far I have not found the answer. Maybe it has something to do with heat forging wootz and mono steel, contra the heat needed when forging pattern wealde steel and mono steel.
Jens
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Old 9th July 2017, 12:08 AM   #8
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Thank you for your reply, Kino. While the shape of the hilt resembles that of a gunong, the presence of the (faux) hilt cup (pendokok/mendak) tells me that the hilt is not of Moro origin. I haven't seen any moro kris with a hilt cup in the shops/museums in Manila and Davao, nor in any of the literature.

Also, are those things on the hilt made of silver? It reminds me of the hilt of a keris I purchased in Malaysia (photo attached).

Anyway, I'm just sharing my thoughts.

Kind regards,

Fernando
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Old 9th July 2017, 03:09 AM   #9
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excellent kris, brother! never seen one like this! you have a very unique piece. congrats!!
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Old 10th July 2017, 03:39 PM   #10
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Jens, interesting indeed. Pardon my ignorance, with your experience in chevron pattern blades, do you find it present only in Indian, Indo-Persian blades? I'm trying to understand where the Moro bladesmith would have gotten his inspiration to forge this blade from.

Fernando, I don't know if the white metal on the hilt is silver or not. The hilt looks so odd that I agree that the hilt is not Moro in origin, but Moro inspired in a way? Have a look at this Moro Kris hilt, it has what it could be interpreted as a hilt cup.


Spunger, thanks homie. First one I've seen as well. I believe there are more out there.
Just like the twist core Barung blades that showed up after all these years. I recall there were some that believed they didn't exist.
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Old 10th July 2017, 04:38 PM   #11
Jens Nordlunde
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Kino,
I dont know where the chevron pattern was used, other than in India that was why I was surprised to see it in your kris.
The chevron pattern was used quite late, to show a master smith, and as trading in the area was intense, some kris smith might have wanted to 'copy' it. Anyway, the one who made the blade must have been a master, as the pattern welded pieces have a special pattern, which is very nice.
Do you anywhere on the blade see a flaw between the pieces?

Centuries before this blade was made, the Indian's had colonies in the SE, but these two things cant have anything to do with each other.
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Old 12th July 2017, 02:37 AM   #12
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Jens, The rest of the chevron panels are consistent with the ones in the photos.
Thanks.
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Old 14th July 2017, 12:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kino
Fernando, I don't know if the white metal on the hilt is silver or not. The hilt looks so odd that I agree that the hilt is not Moro in origin, but Moro inspired in a way? Have a look at this Moro Kris hilt, it has what it could be interpreted as a hilt cup.

This picture has a Maguidanao ganga identical to one I have that is attributed to Datu Piang!

I do agree that the hilts are similar.

Congratulations on a crazy unique Moro piece - I too never saw a great example like this!
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