Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 28th February 2017, 08:41 PM   #1
drac2k
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 541
Default Interesting Sundang

I just acquired this sundang which I believe to be from 1900 to 1945, probably closer to 1900 ; what I found interesting was that the aring(forgive me if I have mislabeled this part), was filled with a metal that looks like silver.I have seen the blades of other weapons with metal inserts, but this is the first time in my limited experience that I have seen the guard of a sundang filled.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Attached Images
            
drac2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2017, 12:08 AM   #2
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,684
Default

Nice example. Congratulations!

This is a Maguindanao kris that I would place a little after 1900. You may want to etch the blade to see if it is mono-steel or laminated.

The copper top on the hilt may have been once covered by a thin sheet of gold to match the ferrule.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2017, 12:22 AM   #3
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Little House on the Prairie
Posts: 2,057
Default

drac2K:

Nice Maguindanao kris. Like Battara, I would place this one later in the 20th C. for several reasons: the sharply pointed, spear tip to the blade; the absence of a separate gangya (an inscribed line has replaced where it would normally be separated); and the general appearance of the sword which looks in mint condition with very crisp incised decorations and pristine hilt. My guess would be closer to mid-20th C., although the scabbard may be a little older.

Ian
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2017, 12:29 AM   #4
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,684
Default

Ian do you think this ganga is not separate? I thought it was. If not, then I would agree that it is mid-20c.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2017, 01:02 AM   #5
drac2k
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 541
Default

Thanks Gentlemen.I am pretty sure that the gangya is separate(maybe wishful thinking).I'll try to get better pictures.I agree that there once was a cap on the end of the pommel.
drac2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2017, 01:16 AM   #6
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,961
Default

Would agree with Jose, turn of the centuries, early 20th century. I agree again, the gangya is seperate. Nice piece! Sadly you don't etch.

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2017, 02:00 AM   #7
drac2k
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 541
Default

Thanks Detlef , any clue why they filled the spaces in the guard ?
drac2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2017, 03:20 AM   #8
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,684
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
Thanks Detlef , any clue why they filled the spaces in the guard ?

Could be talismanic, but just a guess........
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2017, 03:59 AM   #9
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Little House on the Prairie
Posts: 2,057
Default

Hi Jose:

Only way to know for sure is to take the hilt off and see if the gangya is separate. Right now I don't see any clear evidence of separation--the visible line is very straight and shows no edge corrosion or oxidation to suggest a point of separation that has been present for a hundred years or so. I've tried to take similar looking ones apart before, only to discover the gangya was not separate.

If this is a hundred year old sword, it is in a remarkable state of preservation.

Ian.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2017, 10:38 PM   #10
Spunjer
Member
 
Spunjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posts: 1,661
Default

... another way to find out if the gangya is separated is to see if the encircled part of the kris provided are attached or not
Attached Images
 
Spunjer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd March 2017, 09:58 PM   #11
drac2k
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 541
Default

Maybe these additional pictures will help to determine if the gangya is separate.
Attached Images
           
drac2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2017, 02:11 AM   #12
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,684
Default

I have had 3 similar Maguindanao kris (one stolen, one sold off) and the construction was nearly identical, and all 3 had separate gangas. I think this one is also.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2017, 02:48 AM   #13
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 5,283
Default

Looks separate to me, just in case anyone is in the market for 2 cents.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2017, 10:09 AM   #14
F. de Luzon
Member
 
F. de Luzon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 149
Default

Nice! Congratulations!
F. de Luzon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2017, 01:10 PM   #15
drac2k
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 541
Default

Thanks; all opinions are appreciated !
drac2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2017, 01:29 PM   #16
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,961
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
Thanks Detlef , any clue why they filled the spaces in the guard ?


Agree with Jose, could be talismanic but who knows exactly!
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2017, 02:03 PM   #17
drac2k
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 541
Default

Are there any other examples or was this a "one of," that somebody thought was a good idea?
drac2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2017, 03:24 PM   #18
kino
Member
 
kino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 672
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
Are there any other examples or was this a "one of," that somebody thought was a good idea?


I have seen holes on the ganya filled in.
Usually holes are filled in with precious metals. More prevalent in the holes near the tip of the Kampilan blades. Could be that, the area in your blade was filled in lieu of the missing holes.

According to Cato, some components (stirrups, bands, etc..), of the Moro swords are used as commodity to pay a debt or to purchase things. A sword is a safe place to keep something of value, the owner always know where his sword is. Then owner could just knock out a small piece of silver when needed.
kino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2017, 10:12 PM   #19
drac2k
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 541
Default

That makes sense to me as a likely possibility.
drac2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:44 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.