Curious sword of spanish conqueror

Forja Fontenla · 5th June 2015, 05:56 PM

Dear people
I live in Rosario city, in Argentina
In a museum near my city this sword is exposed.
conqueror sword

According to the museum, it belonged to a Spanish conquistador: the Capitain Bartolomé de Bracamonte, died in combat in 1536 on land near the museum ...

At first glance it seems to be a Schiavona, but then a "museum specialist" tells me that the blade of the sword is from "Toledo" and forged before 1530 and the hilt is added later...

In this photo can be seen a few marks ...
Can you tell me something about them?
Marks
I personally do not think matches for nothing

In one side of the blade is the inscription “Pro Fide et Patria”. And on the other “Bartolomé de Bracamonte”

another pic of the blade with the inscription

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...63/Profide.JPG

Can it be that Bartolome de Bracamonte is the builder of the sword?
How rather than the famous Captain?
I hope for your comments[

Jim McDougall · 5th June 2015, 08:39 PM

This is a beautiful sword, but most of the corresponding material I can find suggests that the PRO FIDE ET PATRIA motto was often used by Solingen makers around early to mid 17th century on blades.
This type blade indeed does seem 17th century and while it may be Solingen made, the distinctive 'sickle' or eyelash mark with 'cogwheels' at end of each arc corresponds to such markings of Belluno and Venice from c.1600-30.

These markings are from schiavona examples (Boccia & Coelho, 1975, 491,92,96) which are from that period (one is marked to the 'Council of Ten', CX) .
The examples are very much in the same form hilt, which is with the same pommel and trellis hilt.

While these findings suggest that this sword is indeed a schiavona with a blade which may well be Italian, but with that inscription and style of lettering more likely Solingen but still of very early 17th c.

Although obviously this would tell us this sword is as it seems, a schiavona, and this appears to be a German or Italian blade as noted, therefore cannot reach the 1536 date indicated, there are always other answers.

The Spanish colonization of these regions of course was pronounced in these times, and it would not be surprising for conquistadors of early 17th century to have examples of schiavona. It is well known that many, if not even most, of the familiar morion helmets which characterize conquistadors were actually Italian. Possibly this sword was indeed to one of the Spanish officers of this later period, and the name inscribed into the blade was a commemorative gesture?

It would seem to respond to conquistador presence there, and honoring the founders of these settlements a century before. It is not uncommon for weapons bearing a famed name or event commemoratively to be of that person or event.

Thank you so much for posting this beautiful example!! and compliments to this museum for most attractive displays.

5th June 2015, 05:56 PM	#1
Forja Fontenla Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 13	Curious sword of spanish conqueror Dear people I live in Rosario city, in Argentina In a museum near my city this sword is exposed. conqueror sword According to the museum, it belonged to a Spanish conquistador: the Capitain Bartolomé de Bracamonte, died in combat in 1536 on land near the museum ... At first glance it seems to be a Schiavona, but then a "museum specialist" tells me that the blade of the sword is from "Toledo" and forged before 1530 and the hilt is added later... In this photo can be seen a few marks ... Can you tell me something about them? Marks I personally do not think matches for nothing In one side of the blade is the inscription “Pro Fide et Patria”. And on the other “Bartolomé de Bracamonte” another pic of the blade with the inscription http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...63/Profide.JPG Can it be that Bartolome de Bracamonte is the builder of the sword? How rather than the famous Captain? I hope for your comments[ Last edited by fernando; 5th June 2015 at 07:08 PM.

5th June 2015, 08:39 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	This is a beautiful sword, but most of the corresponding material I can find suggests that the PRO FIDE ET PATRIA motto was often used by Solingen makers around early to mid 17th century on blades. This type blade indeed does seem 17th century and while it may be Solingen made, the distinctive 'sickle' or eyelash mark with 'cogwheels' at end of each arc corresponds to such markings of Belluno and Venice from c.1600-30. These markings are from schiavona examples (Boccia & Coelho, 1975, 491,92,96) which are from that period (one is marked to the 'Council of Ten', CX) . The examples are very much in the same form hilt, which is with the same pommel and trellis hilt. While these findings suggest that this sword is indeed a schiavona with a blade which may well be Italian, but with that inscription and style of lettering more likely Solingen but still of very early 17th c. Although obviously this would tell us this sword is as it seems, a schiavona, and this appears to be a German or Italian blade as noted, therefore cannot reach the 1536 date indicated, there are always other answers. The Spanish colonization of these regions of course was pronounced in these times, and it would not be surprising for conquistadors of early 17th century to have examples of schiavona. It is well known that many, if not even most, of the familiar morion helmets which characterize conquistadors were actually Italian. Possibly this sword was indeed to one of the Spanish officers of this later period, and the name inscribed into the blade was a commemorative gesture? It would seem to respond to conquistador presence there, and honoring the founders of these settlements a century before. It is not uncommon for weapons bearing a famed name or event commemoratively to be of that person or event. Thank you so much for posting this beautiful example!! and compliments to this museum for most attractive displays. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 5th June 2015 at 09:04 PM.