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Old 6th December 2011, 09:23 AM   #1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Default Buckler Shields.

Salaams all,
I wonder if anyone has had a look at buckler shield history and fighting techniques. I believe it was quite an art form in European Sword Schools.
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Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 6th December 2011, 09:39 PM   #2
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Salaam Ibrahiim,

Please cf. the famous German medieval fencing book Walpurgis-Fechtbuch MS I.33 of ca. 1320, now preserved in the Royal Armouries Leeds:

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Walpurgi...h_%28MS_I.33%29

Best,
Michael
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Last edited by Matchlock : 7th December 2011 at 01:06 AM.
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Old 7th December 2011, 01:10 AM   #3
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Old 7th December 2011, 08:52 AM   #4
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Fighting with buckler is very old and survived through some 500 years, in various forms (in Europe alone, not to mention the Turkish, Caucasian, Arab and Indo-Persian traditions). The I.33 is considered the oldest fechtbuch, dated to early14th century. Similar tactics deployed with an elaborated buckler can be seen in Talhoffer's fechtbuch, about 150 years later as well in other manuals. I believe the Scots kept on using bucklers up to the 18th century. The most famous honor duel (Jarnac and Châtaigneraye - France, 1547) was fought with military swords of the period and bucklers.
From personal experience: an excellent fighting tool for medium to close range, both defensive AND offensive. It travels most of the time - as vividly shown in I.33 - very close to the strong hand weapon in the same trajectory untill a parry, a blow or block is made. It developes upper-body phisics and coordination (of course basic coordination is needed). I prefer fencing with a cutlass, dussack or sinclair saber as a combination with a buckler.
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Old 7th December 2011, 01:02 PM   #5
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Salaams all~ Yes I have all the references from the web such as excellent info from wikipedia and so forth. It seems to have been an excellent fighting style and well worth the research which I now see beginning to be recorded on forum. Thanks to Broadaxe and Matchlock especially for the excellent pictures which takes time to set up... much obliged for that
Regards,
Ibrahiim.

PS. The Buckler Shield and sword combination is a style also developed by Omani swordsmen.
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Old 7th December 2011, 04:17 PM   #6
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If you like, look up the web for Dave Rawlings of Boar's Tooth fighting school (London). He has done an excellent job interperting the I.33 and reviving it into modern videos. His approach is aggresive and to the point (met him in real life). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egwTkA1r57w
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Old 8th December 2011, 08:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadaxe
If you like, look up the web for Dave Rawlings of Boar's Tooth fighting school (London). He has done an excellent job interperting the I.33 and reviving it into modern videos. His approach is aggresive and to the point (met him in real life). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egwTkA1r57w



Salaams broadaxe ~ A very excellent video indeed. There is also a very good rendition on style and history on the ARMA WEBSITE. I quote~

The Sword & Buckler Tradition - Part 1
By J. Clements
Along with the longsword as a foundational weapon of training, the ARMA has always emphasized the sword and buckler as a vital tool of study. We now present here one of the most comprehensive looks at this system ever offered. The conclusions that can be drawn from the evidence are somewhat surprising and may lead students of the subject to reappraise the historical importance of this fencing method .
As a fencing tradition in Europe the sword and buckler method was one of the oldest and most continuous combative systems.[1] To a large degree however, its place in fencing has been overshadowed by both the popular image of sword and shield fighting in the Middle Ages and the later Renaissance idea of rapier and dagger duelling. But today, modern enthusiasts and students of historical European martial arts are once again acquiring respect for this effective weapon combination. The result is something of a re-evaluation of the familiar conception of this versatile fighting method.Unquote.

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Old 8th December 2011, 09:10 AM   #8
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Sabah el-Heir Ibrahim
John Clements is the founder & head of ARMA, and one of today's leading (though controversial) historians of western martial arts & weapons. I met him in a seminar a few years ago and like his approach most of the time. One of his best known experiences was to refute the common belief that a sword must be razor sharp (2 vids): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR9k23U-P10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&f...n&v=fFQ4aanmupU

Here is a nice sword & buckler demonstration video - note: these are reconstructed techniques. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNF1bKo0v9k
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Old 27th December 2011, 09:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadaxe
Sabah el-Heir Ibrahim
John Clements is the founder & head of ARMA, and one of today's leading (though controversial) historians of western martial arts & weapons. I met him in a seminar a few years ago and like his approach most of the time. One of his best known experiences was to refute the common belief that a sword must be razor sharp (2 vids): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR9k23U-P10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&f...n&v=fFQ4aanmupU

Here is a nice sword & buckler demonstration video - note: these are reconstructed techniques. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNF1bKo0v9k


Salaams Broadaxe ... Sorry I missed that ... excellent info Shukran ... and greetings for the season and Happy New Year all !! I really like the mediaeval drawings and If I was in London I would join the Buckler Fighting Club for sure... Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi...
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Old 27th December 2011, 10:57 AM   #10
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I believe similar techniques of fighting with buckler also existed in the Muslim world, well into the modern age, but quickly faded away. Last family of fight masters was in Lebanon up to the 1970's to my best knowledge, and the art called saif oo terse.
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Old 28th December 2011, 06:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadaxe
I believe similar techniques of fighting with buckler also existed in the Muslim world, well into the modern age, but quickly faded away. Last family of fight masters was in Lebanon up to the 1970's to my best knowledge, and the art called saif oo terse.


Salaams Broadaxe ~ Interesting terminology for the Lebanese fight masters. Its essentially the same wording in Oman(including neighboring states like the UAE) where today the form is passed down through the Funoon which is an enacted music, poetry and dance pageant that goes back to the mid 8th Century. In the dance form there is included a number of sword performances including Terrs and Saif; firstly as a parade of swords or procession and secondly a mimic fighting contest between 2 swordsmen using the long flexible Omani Saif and the Buckler shield ..the Terrs. In this way the Funoon records and passes on the traditional fighting technique since it is performed throughout each year at festivals and Eid celebrations as well as in front of dignatories , National Day celebrations and weddings... so it gets a very regular airing. I imagine that since this form reached as far as the Mediteranean (Lebanon) that the likely link is there for its transmission into Europe via the Crusader movement etc.

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Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 28th December 2011, 08:38 AM   #12
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Default Curious to know

I am curious to know if the EU countries at any time had an Equivalent to the Madu?

Gav
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Old 28th December 2011, 08:59 AM   #13
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The dance is a known way of preserving the old martial arts, alas it mostly lost the martial intent. http://www.shweir.com/saif_oo_terse.htm

The Druze people also perform a sword dance with long sabers but no buckler. To my best knowledge one of the last muslim (non-arab) people who carry on hard core traditional martial arts is the Adiga (Circassian/Cherkess).
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Old 1st January 2012, 04:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadaxe
The dance is a known way of preserving the old martial arts, alas it mostly lost the martial intent. http://www.shweir.com/saif_oo_terse.htm

The Druze people also perform a sword dance with long sabers but no buckler. To my best knowledge one of the last muslim (non-arab) people who carry on hard core traditional martial arts is the Adiga (Circassian/Cherkess).


Salaams Broadaxe ~ May I quote from your web based reference please.http://www.shweir.com/saif_oo_terse.htm I would like to take small excerpts from that and record into my post on the Ethnographic forum. I have a fairly light weighted idea that transition of the form may have originated in Oman since it has been here since the mid 8th Century.

I see a situation where it may have been picked up and adopted by European Crusader troops including the Georgians and transferred to Europe. It was interesting to see that weaponry of this nature also goes back to the 8th C in Lebanon.

It forms an extremely interesting interlude within the framework I am proposing on Omani "Sayf wa Terrs" ... Shukran.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 1st January 2012, 05:17 PM   #15
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Masa ei-Heir Ibrahim, that web site is not mine by any means, I just posted the link.
BTW it is very intersting to know about Omani martial arts.
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Old 4th January 2012, 04:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebooter
I am curious to know if the EU countries at any time had an Equivalent to the Madu?

Gav



Salaams Gav ~ I had to look that up ..
Madu
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia;

A madu (maru, singuata) is an Indian parrying and thrusting weapon. It consists of a pair of antelope horns fastened behind a small plate consisting of stretched leather, iron, or steel with the tips of the horns pointing in opposite directions. The tips of the horns were often sheathed in steel, and the small plate served to protect the hand and wrist. It was usually wielded in the left hand, with a spear, dagger, or sword held in the right. It was favored by the Bhils, Hindu religious beggars, and by swordsmen as a weapon with both defensive and offensive potential.

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