Seeking Help with Excavated 1728 Pattern Bilbo Sword

G. Mansfield · 25th February 2023, 10:25 PM

I recently received this sword of which is outside of my normal collecting area. Without having any idea of what kind it was, I later gathered that it likely fit the 1728 Pattern Spanish cavalry sword profile. The sword is in excavated condition, missing most of its components such as the hilt, pommel, and shell guard. The blade has an old break around presumably the halfway point of its original length and the edged are littered with contact slits and rolls. After researching some of the type, I had gathered a few questions that I would like to present here. Maybe others can add some information.

Firstly, of all the examples that I have seen either have two or four screw holes to mount the guard. With the examples with four holes, the holes are located in pairs on only two sides, opposite of each other. On this example, the holes are located at one each of the four sides. As this seems irregular, is this actually a pattern 1728, or a local version of the form?

Secondly, I would like to know more about this rapier blade. Many examples are sourced Solingen trade blades or Toledo, ect. I could not locate another one with this type of maker marks or motifs. If I remember correctly, I have seen similar marks before which thought to be Italian, but I cannot find the source of that.
I understand that these were popular from the late 17th to late 18th centuries and made in various styles with different mounted blades, sometimes much earlier blades than the hilt. They were exported to many European countries and was very popular with naval units and privateers alike, especially in the colonial period of the New World.

Whether true or not, it was stated by the seller that this sword was found in Martinique in the 1950’s by the seller’s wife’s grandfather when he was working as an engineer there. It was approximately two feet deep in sand and this is all that was found, without locating any of the other components of the sword. It had been in that family for the past 70 years. If anybody could add anything about the type, I would greatly appreciate it.

Geoffrey

fernando · 26th February 2023, 11:50 AM

Unusual (not rapier) blade decoration, apparently not seen in these swords ? Could it have previously been mounted in a different type of sword ?

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Paging the connoisseurs

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JoeCanada42 · 26th February 2023, 08:20 PM

this sword looks and seems amazing to me, looks like the sword got a tattoo somewhere exotic, to me looks like spiders or ants transporting eggs..

fernando · 26th February 2023, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeCanada42

this sword looks and seems amazing to me, looks like the sword got a tattoo somewhere exotic, to me looks like spiders or ants transporting eggs..

Is that what you see, Joe ? Weird !

JoeCanada42 · 26th February 2023, 08:34 PM

I know right... but I am being honest.
what do you see first glance?
aside from the fleur de Lis on top.
(the fleur de Lis looks to me, a little zoomorphic like an, Aso)

fernando · 26th February 2023, 08:39 PM

We all have different eyes; some more imaginative than others !

25th February 2023, 10:25 PM	#1
G. Mansfield Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Posts: 77	Seeking Help with Excavated 1728 Pattern Bilbo Sword I recently received this sword of which is outside of my normal collecting area. Without having any idea of what kind it was, I later gathered that it likely fit the 1728 Pattern Spanish cavalry sword profile. The sword is in excavated condition, missing most of its components such as the hilt, pommel, and shell guard. The blade has an old break around presumably the halfway point of its original length and the edged are littered with contact slits and rolls. After researching some of the type, I had gathered a few questions that I would like to present here. Maybe others can add some information. Firstly, of all the examples that I have seen either have two or four screw holes to mount the guard. With the examples with four holes, the holes are located in pairs on only two sides, opposite of each other. On this example, the holes are located at one each of the four sides. As this seems irregular, is this actually a pattern 1728, or a local version of the form? Secondly, I would like to know more about this rapier blade. Many examples are sourced Solingen trade blades or Toledo, ect. I could not locate another one with this type of maker marks or motifs. If I remember correctly, I have seen similar marks before which thought to be Italian, but I cannot find the source of that. I understand that these were popular from the late 17th to late 18th centuries and made in various styles with different mounted blades, sometimes much earlier blades than the hilt. They were exported to many European countries and was very popular with naval units and privateers alike, especially in the colonial period of the New World. Whether true or not, it was stated by the seller that this sword was found in Martinique in the 1950’s by the seller’s wife’s grandfather when he was working as an engineer there. It was approximately two feet deep in sand and this is all that was found, without locating any of the other components of the sword. It had been in that family for the past 70 years. If anybody could add anything about the type, I would greatly appreciate it. Geoffrey Attached Images

26th February 2023, 11:50 AM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Unusual (not rapier) blade decoration, apparently not seen in these swords ? Could it have previously been mounted in a different type of sword ? . Paging the connoisseurs .

26th February 2023, 08:20 PM	#3
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	this sword looks and seems amazing to me, looks like the sword got a tattoo somewhere exotic, to me looks like spiders or ants transporting eggs..

26th February 2023, 08:34 PM	#5
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	I know right... but I am being honest. what do you see first glance? aside from the fleur de Lis on top. (the fleur de Lis looks to me, a little zoomorphic like an, Aso)

26th February 2023, 08:39 PM	#6
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	We all have different eyes; some more imaginative than others !