West African saber?

blue lander · 1st May 2014, 10:51 PM

The seller thought it was Tuareg but that doesn't seem likely. After looking through some threads here the closest I could find was in this thread which was described as being Manding. It's not a perfect match to mine but it's somewhat similar.

The pommel and guard look leather but they're actually made from some sort of waxy fabric, perhaps oilcloth or tincloth. I attached a closeup of the fabric, you can still see some sort of spotted pattern on the fabric. The blade is 56 cm long and 34mm wide at the base. It's 6mm thick at the base and tapers to a false edge towards the tip. There's no fullers, ricasso, or markings/stamps of any kind but it looks like a European blade to me. Maybe a briquet? The steel has swirl marks on it so somebody must have cleaned it harshly at some point.

Jim McDougall · 2nd May 2014, 04:15 AM

I think the Sierra Leone and generally those West African regions are most likely. The blade indeed appears to be a European hanger blade, probably quite old, possibly late 18th c.

Iain · 2nd May 2014, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I think the Sierra Leone and generally those West African regions are most likely. The blade indeed appears to be a European hanger blade, probably quite old, possibly late 18th c.

I agree the general region Jim. Not sure about the blade age. There seem to be somewhat endless variations on these swords within the larger Mandinka ethnic group, including the Mandingo of Sierra Leone.

blue lander · 2nd May 2014, 02:43 PM

Thanks both. I've been looking at the blade closely to see if there are any faint markings that might provide a hint, but so far nothing. They may be hidden by the hilt. There is an "S" shaped thing but I think it's just a flaw in the steel rather than a mark.

Iain · 2nd May 2014, 03:46 PM

I would agree that's not a mark but rather just a surface scratch or aberration in the steel.

Jim McDougall · 2nd May 2014, 08:51 PM

I agree on that 'mark' Iain. On the blade, it seems like a simple and 'wedge' type, and as Blue Lander noted, perhaps it may indeed be a briquette. I have seen many with these kinds of blades, and that would probably bring the blade into 19th century....these were around pretty much through the century.

Iain · 2nd May 2014, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I agree on that 'mark' Iain. On the blade, it seems like a simple and 'wedge' type, and as Blue Lander noted, perhaps it may indeed be a briquette. I have seen many with these kinds of blades, and that would probably bring the blade into 19th century....these were around pretty much through the century.

The briquette idea is pretty compelling I think. Some of the Belgian models as I recall have this profile with no ricasso.

blue lander · 2nd May 2014, 11:28 PM

I was oiling the blade up when I noticed the guard felt quite loose. I applied the slightest amount of pressure and the guard separated in two, revealing the base of the blade. It does appear to have a very small ricasso, although I still don't see any identifying marks. I'm going to clean the exposed part of the blade with mineral oil to see if anything pops out before I re attach the top of the guard.

blue lander · 5th May 2014, 08:24 PM

I cleaned up the newly exposed ricasso as best I could, but I don't see any markings. You'd think if it was a mid 19th century or newer blade it would have some sort of inspection stamps on it. Also interesting is that the steel is just as pitted in the part of the blade covered by the guard as it is in the exposed part.

Iain · 5th May 2014, 08:29 PM

I'm not well enough versed in these briquette blades to say if any series were produced without proof marks.

However on the pitting, this isn't a massive surprise, given the relatively recently hilting compared to the likely age of the blade.

blue lander · 5th May 2014, 09:43 PM

I've been looking at pictures of briquets and it seems like every country under the sun made them for 150+ years. Most have inspection marks but some don't. From viewing threads about them on other boards I get the impression there's no way to ID a blade that isn't marked, especially since the original European hilt is missing.

What's odd is that you'd expect a blade from that part of Africa to be French, but French briquet blades seem to always be stamped.

Iain · 5th May 2014, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

I've been looking at pictures of briquets and it seems like every country under the sun made them for 150+ years. Most have inspection marks but some don't. From viewing threads about them on other boards I get the impression there's no way to ID a blade that isn't marked, especially since the original European hilt is missing.

What's odd is that you'd expect a blade from that part of Africa to be French, but French briquet blades seem to always be stamped.

French, German, Portuguese, British, all possibilities I would say. Not to mention the always present trade routes and commerce, just to confuse the possibilities further.

1st May 2014, 10:51 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	West African saber? The seller thought it was Tuareg but that doesn't seem likely. After looking through some threads here the closest I could find was in this thread which was described as being Manding. It's not a perfect match to mine but it's somewhat similar. The pommel and guard look leather but they're actually made from some sort of waxy fabric, perhaps oilcloth or tincloth. I attached a closeup of the fabric, you can still see some sort of spotted pattern on the fabric. The blade is 56 cm long and 34mm wide at the base. It's 6mm thick at the base and tapers to a false edge towards the tip. There's no fullers, ricasso, or markings/stamps of any kind but it looks like a European blade to me. Maybe a briquet? The steel has swirl marks on it so somebody must have cleaned it harshly at some point. Attached Images

2nd May 2014, 02:43 PM	#4
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks both. I've been looking at the blade closely to see if there are any faint markings that might provide a hint, but so far nothing. They may be hidden by the hilt. There is an "S" shaped thing but I think it's just a flaw in the steel rather than a mark. Attached Images

2nd May 2014, 11:28 PM	#8
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I was oiling the blade up when I noticed the guard felt quite loose. I applied the slightest amount of pressure and the guard separated in two, revealing the base of the blade. It does appear to have a very small ricasso, although I still don't see any identifying marks. I'm going to clean the exposed part of the blade with mineral oil to see if anything pops out before I re attach the top of the guard. Attached Images

5th May 2014, 08:24 PM	#9
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I cleaned up the newly exposed ricasso as best I could, but I don't see any markings. You'd think if it was a mid 19th century or newer blade it would have some sort of inspection stamps on it. Also interesting is that the steel is just as pitted in the part of the blade covered by the guard as it is in the exposed part. Attached Images

2nd May 2014, 04:15 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,747	I think the Sierra Leone and generally those West African regions are most likely. The blade indeed appears to be a European hanger blade, probably quite old, possibly late 18th c.

2nd May 2014, 03:46 PM	#5
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,680	I would agree that's not a mark but rather just a surface scratch or aberration in the steel.

2nd May 2014, 08:51 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,747	I agree on that 'mark' Iain. On the blade, it seems like a simple and 'wedge' type, and as Blue Lander noted, perhaps it may indeed be a briquette. I have seen many with these kinds of blades, and that would probably bring the blade into 19th century....these were around pretty much through the century.

5th May 2014, 08:29 PM	#10
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,680	I'm not well enough versed in these briquette blades to say if any series were produced without proof marks. However on the pitting, this isn't a massive surprise, given the relatively recently hilting compared to the likely age of the blade.

5th May 2014, 09:43 PM	#11
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I've been looking at pictures of briquets and it seems like every country under the sun made them for 150+ years. Most have inspection marks but some don't. From viewing threads about them on other boards I get the impression there's no way to ID a blade that isn't marked, especially since the original European hilt is missing. What's odd is that you'd expect a blade from that part of Africa to be French, but French briquet blades seem to always be stamped.