9th regt. of foot, Royal Norfolk Regt.

Will M · 9th July 2021, 04:03 PM

An interesting sword to a Capt in the Crimea with the 9th Foot. Later to be general staff with transport and commissionariat. Medal and clasp for Sebastopol and 5th class of the order of Medjidie 1856, Turkish War medal 1859. In 1884 he was with the Nile Expedition as commissary general.
The blade is etched with 13 battle honours, IX, Britannia, HJ Wilkinson and his family crest. The guard has had the VR replaced with the general officers crossed sword and baton. Fenton was nice enough to have taken a photo of HJ Wilkinson on horseback.

What is somewhat unclear is the Wilkinson blade proof page, some of it has not been deciphered yet.

illustration of Nile Expedition from 1884 Graphic, online by lookand learn.com
HJ Wilkinson is bottom right corner.
If anyone has a higher resolution picture of the Nile illustration I'd be interested in it.

adrian · 9th July 2021, 09:57 PM

What is somewhat unclear is the Wilkinson blade proof page, some of it has not been deciphered yet.

There would be a reasonable number of forum members who regularly wade through copperplate in their research & it may well be worth indicating the words that have yet to be deciphered.

Will M · 9th July 2021, 10:40 PM

I didn't want to guess at the words which can lead to someone being unable to look past what I wrote. Other than the dates, anything under the entry for the blade size.

adrian · 10th July 2021, 10:32 AM

I read it as:

Sword steel
hilt Grenadr ((the r (it might be an 'e') is super script which this forum's text range will not allow me to do)) - short for 'Grenadier'
(the next word baffles me) Centi??

(last line) NP Gren Guards (NP usually represents ‘New Pattern’)

Will M · 10th July 2021, 04:51 PM

The guard is the new pattern for the non folding hilt. He would have had the VR replaced with the general officers crossed sword and baton.
I'm guessing that Gren could be Gen for general officers?
What appears obvious does not match the sword. The swords blade measurements are correct. Searching pages either side of 5955 did not reveal anything.

adrian · 10th July 2021, 09:51 PM

I'm guessing that Gren could be Gen for general officers?

There is unquestionably an r in that word.

I am not a sword expert, was there a pattern of sword specifically for Grenadier Guards officers in this period? If so was there anything that could have prevented this gent from wearing one? I wonder if, when he ordered this sword, he had expectations of holding a commission in the GGs, one could of course speculate endlessly but there was something that 'changed'. The hilt appears to be brass, not steel, have you tried a magnet on it, just in case.... In any event it would seem that either the sword was re-hilted in brass or the order was altered and the records not amended - it was after all a fairly regular sword & I know from years of experience in the modern building industry that many changes are requested during construction and not all of those end up as written contract variations and the changes are just simply done with no record other than the evidence of what one can see.

9th July 2021, 04:03 PM	#1
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 390	9th regt. of foot, Royal Norfolk Regt. An interesting sword to a Capt in the Crimea with the 9th Foot. Later to be general staff with transport and commissionariat. Medal and clasp for Sebastopol and 5th class of the order of Medjidie 1856, Turkish War medal 1859. In 1884 he was with the Nile Expedition as commissary general. The blade is etched with 13 battle honours, IX, Britannia, HJ Wilkinson and his family crest. The guard has had the VR replaced with the general officers crossed sword and baton. Fenton was nice enough to have taken a photo of HJ Wilkinson on horseback. What is somewhat unclear is the Wilkinson blade proof page, some of it has not been deciphered yet. illustration of Nile Expedition from 1884 Graphic, online by lookand learn.com HJ Wilkinson is bottom right corner. If anyone has a higher resolution picture of the Nile illustration I'd be interested in it. Attached Images

10th July 2021, 10:32 AM	#4
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 117	I read it as: Sword steel hilt Grenadr ((the r (it might be an 'e') is super script which this forum's text range will not allow me to do)) - short for 'Grenadier' (the next word baffles me) Centi?? (last line) NP Gren Guards (NP usually represents ‘New Pattern’) Last edited by adrian; 10th July 2021 at 09:39 PM.

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9th July 2021, 09:57 PM	#2
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 117	What is somewhat unclear is the Wilkinson blade proof page, some of it has not been deciphered yet. There would be a reasonable number of forum members who regularly wade through copperplate in their research & it may well be worth indicating the words that have yet to be deciphered.

9th July 2021, 10:40 PM	#3
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 390	I didn't want to guess at the words which can lead to someone being unable to look past what I wrote. Other than the dates, anything under the entry for the blade size.

10th July 2021, 04:51 PM	#5
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 390	The guard is the new pattern for the non folding hilt. He would have had the VR replaced with the general officers crossed sword and baton. I'm guessing that Gren could be Gen for general officers? What appears obvious does not match the sword. The swords blade measurements are correct. Searching pages either side of 5955 did not reveal anything.

10th July 2021, 09:51 PM	#6
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 117	I'm guessing that Gren could be Gen for general officers? There is unquestionably an r in that word. I am not a sword expert, was there a pattern of sword specifically for Grenadier Guards officers in this period? If so was there anything that could have prevented this gent from wearing one? I wonder if, when he ordered this sword, he had expectations of holding a commission in the GGs, one could of course speculate endlessly but there was something that 'changed'. The hilt appears to be brass, not steel, have you tried a magnet on it, just in case.... In any event it would seem that either the sword was re-hilted in brass or the order was altered and the records not amended - it was after all a fairly regular sword & I know from years of experience in the modern building industry that many changes are requested during construction and not all of those end up as written contract variations and the changes are just simply done with no record other than the evidence of what one can see.