Hand Cannons, Mortars, or Junk?

drac2k · 22nd October 2022, 07:34 PM

I'm certainly no expert on weapons, but I know even less about these types of items. I'm guessing that they are hand mortars & cannons, but I haven't a clue about their age or origin.
Any help would be appreciated!

Rick · 22nd October 2022, 11:07 PM

Some of these little devices look like Thunder Mugs, or signal cannon.
Useful during fogs at sea like one would use a Foghorn.
Also used for a little noise and flash at parties.

drac2k · 23rd October 2022, 12:56 AM

Thanks for the info, Rick.

fernando · 23rd October 2022, 12:49 PM

I follow Rick. Very nice examples ... with age.

drac2k · 23rd October 2022, 05:07 PM

Thanks, Fernando. They look like the ones that you posted on "Stone Balls for Comments;" are they the same type and do you have a rough idea or range of their age? Some are quite heavy ranging from 3/4" to 2" in bore with the longest being approx. 9" long.

fernando · 23rd October 2022, 05:41 PM

Hard to know. These things can be as old as one, two, three centuries. It takes an expert to judge them by the shape, forged and not cast, touch hole, ect.
Maybe (maybe) number 4, 5 and 9 would be hand cannon barrels.

drac2k · 23rd October 2022, 06:25 PM

Thanks, that does help. To further impose on you do you have any general idea what area they could be from;i.e. Asian, European, etc.?

fernando · 23rd October 2022, 07:07 PM

I would say these types are European ... until better judgement.

drac2k · 23rd October 2022, 10:25 PM

Thanks

midelburgo · 24th October 2022, 07:11 AM

Aside from signalling devices, I have seen them described as used for fireworks.

Kmaddock · 24th October 2022, 09:17 AM

Hi
I love these items, can I ask did they all come out of one collection and is there a back ground story?
WRT the one 2 I have indicated below I think the hole is too large a diameter to be touch hole, I feel the blast would come out the side just as much as out the front of the "barrel" but great items all the same.

Regards

Ken

fernando · 24th October 2022, 10:16 AM

Maybe an optical ilusion. What they have is a pan under the hole to 'deposit' the priming gunpowder. A different type of ignition.

.

drac2k · 24th October 2022, 03:56 PM

So there would be two ignitions; the primer in the pan and the actual charge? Was this done to ensure a more controlled discharge as opposed to a fuse or lighting up the actual touchhole?
Yes, these items came in 2 lots from the same auction where there were a number of other cannon-type items for sale; they went very reasonably(or so I thought so), and so I did what I usually do when I don't know anything about the item(s), ..... I bought them. Instant collection, lol.

fernando · 24th October 2022, 07:25 PM

There is only one ignition, and apparently more than one way to ignite the powder charge inside the barrel. It may be by lighting a fuse that is introduced inside the touch hole; or pouring gunpowder in the pan and light it, the sparks entering the touch hole.
That is a rough way to put it. Surely more knowledged members can tell you better. Or you can learn the basics in the Internet

.

drac2k · 24th October 2022, 08:20 PM

Thanks for my ongoing education.

22nd October 2022, 07:34 PM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,174	Hand Cannons, Mortars, or Junk? I'm certainly no expert on weapons, but I know even less about these types of items. I'm guessing that they are hand mortars & cannons, but I haven't a clue about their age or origin. Any help would be appreciated! Attached Images

23rd October 2022, 05:07 PM	#5
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,174	Thanks, Fernando. They look like the ones that you posted on "Stone Balls for Comments;" are they the same type and do you have a rough idea or range of their age? Some are quite heavy ranging from 3/4" to 2" in bore with the longest being approx. 9" long. Last edited by drac2k; 23rd October 2022 at 05:07 PM. Reason: spelling correction

24th October 2022, 09:17 AM	#11
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 532	Hi I love these items, can I ask did they all come out of one collection and is there a back ground story? WRT the one 2 I have indicated below I think the hole is too large a diameter to be touch hole, I feel the blast would come out the side just as much as out the front of the "barrel" but great items all the same. Regards Ken Attached Images

24th October 2022, 10:16 AM	#12
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	Maybe an optical ilusion. What they have is a pan under the hole to 'deposit' the priming gunpowder. A different type of ignition. . Attached Images

22nd October 2022, 11:07 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Some of these little devices look like Thunder Mugs, or signal cannon. Useful during fogs at sea like one would use a Foghorn. Also used for a little noise and flash at parties.

23rd October 2022, 12:56 AM	#3
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,174	Thanks for the info, Rick.

23rd October 2022, 12:49 PM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	I follow Rick. Very nice examples ... with age.

23rd October 2022, 05:41 PM	#6
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	Hard to know. These things can be as old as one, two, three centuries. It takes an expert to judge them by the shape, forged and not cast, touch hole, ect. Maybe (maybe) number 4, 5 and 9 would be hand cannon barrels.

23rd October 2022, 06:25 PM	#7
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,174	Thanks, that does help. To further impose on you do you have any general idea what area they could be from;i.e. Asian, European, etc.?

23rd October 2022, 07:07 PM	#8
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	I would say these types are European ... until better judgement.

23rd October 2022, 10:25 PM	#9
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,174	Thanks

24th October 2022, 07:11 AM	#10
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 248	Aside from signalling devices, I have seen them described as used for fireworks.

24th October 2022, 03:56 PM	#13
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,174	So there would be two ignitions; the primer in the pan and the actual charge? Was this done to ensure a more controlled discharge as opposed to a fuse or lighting up the actual touchhole? Yes, these items came in 2 lots from the same auction where there were a number of other cannon-type items for sale; they went very reasonably(or so I thought so), and so I did what I usually do when I don't know anything about the item(s), ..... I bought them. Instant collection, lol.

24th October 2022, 07:25 PM	#14
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	There is only one ignition, and apparently more than one way to ignite the powder charge inside the barrel. It may be by lighting a fuse that is introduced inside the touch hole; or pouring gunpowder in the pan and light it, the sparks entering the touch hole. That is a rough way to put it. Surely more knowledged members can tell you better. Or you can learn the basics in the Internet .

24th October 2022, 08:20 PM	#15
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,174	Thanks for my ongoing education.