Photos of 13 luk Tombak

Pusaka · 13th January 2008, 10:45 PM

Purchased this a few years ago, would love to know your thoughts on this tombak.

sipakatuo · 14th January 2008, 03:57 AM

Very nice tombak, if I am not mistaken that is dapur Koro Welang with pamor Pedharingan kebak and tangguh mataram senopaten. Probably ex kinatah, if I looked at the metuk.

Pusaka · 14th January 2008, 05:53 PM

Hello sipakatuo,

I'm not sure what you mean when you say ex kinatah?

sipakatuo · 15th January 2008, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Hello sipakatuo,

I'm not sure what you mean when you say ex kinatah?

Ok, take a look closely, if you see the metuk there is a cross (X) sign.
On that cross sign probably it used to has kinatah (gold) attached.
In the old days, tombak or spears that were made special with good quality of pamor, iron, and garapan almost have kinatah made of gold, brass, etc.

pakana · 15th January 2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Purchased this a few years ago, would love to know your thoughts on this tombak.

George,

This is just one of stories that I collected. Years ago, in Gunung Kidul (Jogja, Indonesia), I got a story about Kiai Konang (Konang is Jawa word which means Firefly/Gloworm). Kiai Konang is a tombak (spearhead): perhaps it is classified as Korowelang shape, luks 13 and pedaringan kebak pamor.

Once day, there was a robbery attempt in the house of Kiai Konang. Knowing in dangerous situation, the owner unsheathed Kiai Konang. In short, the robbers run away.

Weeks/months later, the robbers were caught by police. In their testimonies, when they tried to steal in the house of Kiai Konang, they showed that the owner of the house held a pusaka. That pusaka sparked light/fire like firefly. Facing with odd phenomenon, the robbers run away.

After that, the spear point was given a name: Kiai Firefly.

Based on that story, we may conclude that the sign of keris/pusaka (if It can give and you believe in) varies.

warm salam,

Is this the Kiai Firefly tombak??

Pusaka · 15th January 2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sipakatuo

Ok, take a look closely, if you see the metuk there is a cross (X) sign.
On that cross sign probably it used to has kinatah (gold) attached.
In the old days, tombak or spears that were made special with good quality of pamor, iron, and garapan almost have kinatah made of gold, brass, etc.

Thanks Sipakatuo, I see what your talking about now, the markings carved into the metuk (ring). I actually never noticed them before

Raden Usman Djogja · 15th January 2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pakana

Is this the Kiai Firefly tombak??

It can be. If this tombak came from Gunungkidul Jogja, there is bigger opportunity.

There is different meaning between dhapur/shape and Kiai/Mr or Nyai/Madame. Dhapur/shape refers to model of keris or spear. Kiai and Nyai refer to the definite Tombak or Keris. For instance, you have a keris which has dhapur/shape sengkelat and you name it NYAI VIKING. There are lots of Sengkelat in the world and only one has a name: NYAI VIKING. Even if there were two NYAI VIKINGs, they are different.

To some extend, there is no rule of naming pusaka. Everybody can give a name for their pusaka. However, so far, few pusakas have a name: Kanjeng Kiai Ageng Pleret, Kanjeng Kiai Toyo Tinaban, Kiai Joko Umbaran, Nyai Drajat, etc...etc... WHY? Most people only give dhapur/shape for their keris identification. Such as dhapur megantoro, dhapur tilamupih, dhapur jalak nyucup madu. But dont ever ever ever say dhapurmu.

Just my imagination, if kerises like human having ability to communicate ecah other and having "MENUNGSO WARUNG KOPI" and talking about us by saying "dhapur Malaysia, dhapur England, dhapur Jawa, dhapur Ostrali". There are no Pakana, Penangsang, Oesman, Gonjowulung, Alan and David. Only dhapur and dhapur where we realize that million of Jawa, not only Oesman for instance. WHAT DO YOU FEEL? what did Shakespeare feel if people just memorize him as "dhapur briton"?

warm salam,
Oes

Pusaka · 15th January 2008, 03:06 PM

The tombak comes from Yogyakarta and I was told it is a rare dapur described as "Tombak Korowelang with 13 luks" The blade has a lovely strong sent, I believe the previous owner must have looked after this tombak well.

I think Korowelang is not the correct description for this tombak though

Photo of Korowelang pamor from:

http://www.heritageofjava.com/keris/pamor/index_7.html

Boedhi Adhitya · 15th January 2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pakana

George,

Is this the Kiai Firefly tombak??

I'm afraid not, Pakana. I've seen Kiyai Konang, and the story of it exactly as yo've already written. The daughter of the 'original owner' inherited it. Yes, it has 13 luks. Pusaka's tombak is good, but Kyai Konang is better.

1 or 2 years ago, because of some reason, she has to 'released' her heirloom. After changing several owners, it finally found a new owner, which I believe, also watching this thread. But unfortunately, I can not reveal his/her identity

Pusaka · 15th January 2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boedhi Adhitya

I'm afraid not, Pakana. I've seen Kiyai Konang, and the story of it exactly as yo've already written. The daughter of the 'original owner' inherited it. Yes, it has 13 luks. Pusaka's tombak is good, but Kyai Konang is better.

1 or 2 years ago, because of some reason, she has to 'released' her heirloom. After changing several owners, it finally found a new owner, which I believe, also watching this thread. But unfortunately, I can not reveal his/her identity

Well please ask that individual if they still have it because I purchased this not long after and also by a individual who is also a member of this forum

Boedhi Adhitya · 17th January 2008, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Well please ask that individual if they still have it because I purchased this not long after and also by a individual who is also a member of this forum

Did you mean you had yours named Kyai Konang, too ?

Regarding the one which belongs to the member of this forum, I'm sure it is still in his hand, and he paid an appropriate 'dowry' for it, by market standard, i.e. quality vs price, not on the story base. In fact, if he/she wish to release it, I would be glad to 'inherit' it, certainly by paying those prescribed 'appropriate dowry' and a little bit more

Well, I'm not saying yours is 'fake' Kyai Konang and the other is the true or vice versa. In fact, there is a possibility that both are fakes. Who knows ? That's why we have to asses keris etc by it's quality, not the story. Story is an 'added sugar'.

Raden Usman Djogja · 17th January 2008, 11:17 AM

Yes, I agree with Dik Boedhi in "story is an added sugar".

Even, sometimes, we should separate between collecting/buying keris activities and collecting/listening keris legends.

Some respected people on keris world in my home town gave advise as i mentioned above and below:

When you can not separate between to learn about keris and to hear about keris, you will face situation that in Jawa terminology said as "KEBLONDROK". Keblondrok have deep intrinsic meaning amongst kerislovers in my hometown, roughly translation: "you pay much more expensive than you should when you buy a keris".

Nevertheless, you must do both: to learn and to hear... and if possible to come to the owner for asking if they allow you to see and to hold.

There is a believe. So up to you whether you will believe or not. Someday, you will get good quality of keris both in appearance and in spirit. WHY?

To whom which considering quality is the first priority. You will buy a keris only if the quality is excellent

To whom wich considering spirit aspect is the first priority. If you believe in it. So it is not upsetting you if there is a myth that "keris is also looking for his master"

Most of Keris Pusakas are now in good condition. Let you see in books regarding keris pusakas owned by Keraton and try to give opinions. You will end on the situation that "those keris have very very good quality on art and knowledge aspects. Or if you know some prominent leaders in business or in politics in Indonesia whom believe in spirit of keris and have an effort how to take care. Amongst hundred of their collection, there will be some which considered as pusakas.

Why are the most kerises "Pusaka class" still in good condition?

There is no exact and valid answer. But lets try to use "coro bodon" (coro = tool, bodo = stupid, bodon = ?). If talking about spirit. If it is believed keris has spirit, for example to protect. So, who will keris protect. First think first. Logically, the keris will firstly protect himself. So, if the keris cannot protect himself well how human as hismaster can believe that his keris can protect him?!

And... by believing in spirit, we will realize on hierarchy of spirits. The will be the sky above the sky. Unlimited untill our mind cannot analyze and jump to the point that the highest is called the Singularity.

The power of nature represents the nature of the Singularity. It should be the most powerfull element. So, even the most powerful keris can not win on the battle with NATURE. Some nature enemy of keris are stain and corrotion because part of keris elements is steel (Fe).

To protect from their natural enemies, Keris will try to find someone who can take care of him. After the keris can protect himself then the next turm is to protect his master.

All above is just a story... there is no scientific evidence.

regards,
OeS

Pusaka · 17th January 2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boedhi Adhitya

Did you mean you had yours named Kyai Konang, too ?

Regarding the one which belongs to the member of this forum, I'm sure it is still in his hand, and he paid an appropriate 'dowry' for it, by market standard, i.e. quality vs price, not on the story base. In fact, if he/she wish to release it, I would be glad to 'inherit' it, certainly by paying those prescribed 'appropriate dowry' and a little bit more

Well, I'm not saying yours is 'fake' Kyai Konang and the other is the true or vice versa. In fact, there is a possibility that both are fakes. Who knows ? That's why we have to asses keris etc by it's quality, not the story. Story is an 'added sugar'.

No the person never named my tombak Kyai Konang, even if he did I would not have understood as I never heard the story behind that tombak before.

What I meant was it is a big coincidence. The tombak is of the same rare dapur /pamor with same number of luk, from the same location in Indonesia, purchased at around the same time and to top it off you said the person who owns it is a member of this forum as is the person I obtained my tombak from.
I would love to see some photos of the kyai konang to make a comparison ,see if it was made by the same hand, tombak are oftern made in pairs

sipakatuo · 18th January 2008, 02:39 AM

This is just a sample of another Koro Welang of mine.

Marcokeris · 18th January 2008, 11:12 AM

Another very nice

what kind of wood (root?)? Jati , trembalo, cendana

Raden Usman Djogja · 18th January 2008, 11:53 AM

beautifull...

Pusaka · 18th January 2008, 05:07 PM

sipakatuo, I like the wood your spear tip sheath is made from too, maybe burl wood but not sure what tree it comes from. The sheath on my tombak is not as sophisticated, I think its fairly recent.

Raden Usman Djogja · 18th January 2008, 06:28 PM

very beautiful daringan kebak. good pamor, good blade, kinatah... used to be an important pusaka

ganjawulung · 19th January 2008, 04:46 AM

Dear Pusaka,

This is more korowelang. Of course this is not "Kiai Konang" like Pakana (or Sipakatuo?) just said. If I'm not mistaken, there are at least two kinds of korowelang dhapur. The other one is not slim like this, like normal tombak but with the same luks of 13 too... (please correct my mistake, if I was wrong..)

Ganjawulung

Pusaka · 19th January 2008, 02:49 PM

ganjawulung,

Nice tombak and the wood from which the sheath is made also looks good.

I cant answer your question because I dont have much knowledge of tombak. Actually I dont really collect tombak. I have seen wider tombak with 13 luk also but not sure if it would be called Koro welang.

ganjawulung · 20th January 2008, 02:08 AM

Dear Pusaka,

This is also Korowelang, another wider type of the same dhapur. Also with 13 luks, and "ada-ada" or "gigir sapi" (curved, half-rounded blade in the middle). Attributed also to Mataram style... With "sunggingan" sheath (decorated with special illustration, and the motive of the sunggingan is "modang"... 20th sunggingan from Solo..)

Ganjawulung

sipakatuo · 20th January 2008, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Another very nice

what kind of wood (root?)? Jati , trembalo, cendana

I am not too sure about the wood, a keris seller told me that it is Timoho werut. Thanks marco.

Pusaka · 20th January 2008, 02:21 PM

ganjawulung,

Nice tombak! similar to one I seen for sale but yours is of a higher quality blade and in better condition too.

Rick · 20th January 2008, 05:37 PM

Sorry Gentlemen , I must have been asleep at the switch .

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5390

I'm moving this to the Ethnographic Forum if you would like to discuss further .

13th January 2008, 10:45 PM	#1
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	Photos of 13 luk Tombak Purchased this a few years ago, would love to know your thoughts on this tombak. Attached Images

15th January 2008, 03:06 PM	#8
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	The tombak comes from Yogyakarta and I was told it is a rare dapur described as "Tombak Korowelang with 13 luks" The blade has a lovely strong sent, I believe the previous owner must have looked after this tombak well. I think Korowelang is not the correct description for this tombak though Photo of Korowelang pamor from: http://www.heritageofjava.com/keris/pamor/index_7.html Attached Images

18th January 2008, 02:39 AM	#14
sipakatuo Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 59	This is just a sample of another Koro Welang of mine. Attached Images

18th January 2008, 05:07 PM	#17
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	sipakatuo, I like the wood your spear tip sheath is made from too, maybe burl wood but not sure what tree it comes from. The sheath on my tombak is not as sophisticated, I think its fairly recent. Attached Images

19th January 2008, 04:46 AM	#19
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	More Korowelang Dear Pusaka, This is more korowelang. Of course this is not "Kiai Konang" like Pakana (or Sipakatuo?) just said. If I'm not mistaken, there are at least two kinds of korowelang dhapur. The other one is not slim like this, like normal tombak but with the same luks of 13 too... (please correct my mistake, if I was wrong..) Ganjawulung Attached Images

14th January 2008, 03:57 AM	#2
sipakatuo Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 59	Very nice tombak, if I am not mistaken that is dapur Koro Welang with pamor Pedharingan kebak and tangguh mataram senopaten. Probably ex kinatah, if I looked at the metuk.

14th January 2008, 05:53 PM	#3
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	Hello sipakatuo, I'm not sure what you mean when you say ex kinatah?

17th January 2008, 11:17 AM	#12
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Yes, I agree with Dik Boedhi in "story is an added sugar". Even, sometimes, we should separate between collecting/buying keris activities and collecting/listening keris legends. Some respected people on keris world in my home town gave advise as i mentioned above and below: When you can not separate between to learn about keris and to hear about keris, you will face situation that in Jawa terminology said as "KEBLONDROK". Keblondrok have deep intrinsic meaning amongst kerislovers in my hometown, roughly translation: "you pay much more expensive than you should when you buy a keris". Nevertheless, you must do both: to learn and to hear... and if possible to come to the owner for asking if they allow you to see and to hold. There is a believe. So up to you whether you will believe or not. Someday, you will get good quality of keris both in appearance and in spirit. WHY? To whom which considering quality is the first priority. You will buy a keris only if the quality is excellent To whom wich considering spirit aspect is the first priority. If you believe in it. So it is not upsetting you if there is a myth that "keris is also looking for his master" Most of Keris Pusakas are now in good condition. Let you see in books regarding keris pusakas owned by Keraton and try to give opinions. You will end on the situation that "those keris have very very good quality on art and knowledge aspects. Or if you know some prominent leaders in business or in politics in Indonesia whom believe in spirit of keris and have an effort how to take care. Amongst hundred of their collection, there will be some which considered as pusakas. Why are the most kerises "Pusaka class" still in good condition? There is no exact and valid answer. But lets try to use "coro bodon" (coro = tool, bodo = stupid, bodon = ?). If talking about spirit. If it is believed keris has spirit, for example to protect. So, who will keris protect. First think first. Logically, the keris will firstly protect himself. So, if the keris cannot protect himself well how human as hismaster can believe that his keris can protect him?! And... by believing in spirit, we will realize on hierarchy of spirits. The will be the sky above the sky. Unlimited untill our mind cannot analyze and jump to the point that the highest is called the Singularity. The power of nature represents the nature of the Singularity. It should be the most powerfull element. So, even the most powerful keris can not win on the battle with NATURE. Some nature enemy of keris are stain and corrotion because part of keris elements is steel (Fe). To protect from their natural enemies, Keris will try to find someone who can take care of him. After the keris can protect himself then the next turm is to protect his master. All above is just a story... there is no scientific evidence. regards, OeS

18th January 2008, 11:12 AM	#15
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Another very nice what kind of wood (root?)? Jati , trembalo, cendana

18th January 2008, 11:53 AM	#16
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	beautifull...

18th January 2008, 06:28 PM	#18
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	very beautiful daringan kebak. good pamor, good blade, kinatah... used to be an important pusaka

19th January 2008, 02:49 PM	#20
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	ganjawulung, Nice tombak and the wood from which the sheath is made also looks good. I cant answer your question because I dont have much knowledge of tombak. Actually I dont really collect tombak. I have seen wider tombak with 13 luk also but not sure if it would be called Koro welang.

20th January 2008, 02:08 AM	#21
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Another Korowelang Dear Pusaka, This is also Korowelang, another wider type of the same dhapur. Also with 13 luks, and "ada-ada" or "gigir sapi" (curved, half-rounded blade in the middle). Attributed also to Mataram style... With "sunggingan" sheath (decorated with special illustration, and the motive of the sunggingan is "modang"... 20th sunggingan from Solo..) Ganjawulung Attached Images

20th January 2008, 02:21 PM	#23
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	ganjawulung, Nice tombak! similar to one I seen for sale but yours is of a higher quality blade and in better condition too.

20th January 2008, 05:37 PM	#24
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Apologies ... Sorry Gentlemen , I must have been asleep at the switch . http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5390 I'm moving this to the Ethnographic Forum if you would like to discuss further .