Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 3rd December 2017, 03:03 PM   #1
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,734
Thumbs up PNG sword club

Just as I thought I was giving up collecting I acquired this smashing piece. 51 inches long and diamond section hard smooth palm wood and quite heavy for a sword club. Do you ever really stop or just start again? It came with auction notes of having origins in the Mambare river region. If you have researched PNG sword clubs you can see that there is a subtle difference from region to region. Looking from the Sepik to Massim region you will find Mambare south east of the Sepik and north of Collingwood bay and the Massim region. sword club from these region are much the same form but with subtle differences in finish and decoration. The handle end seems to be the most noticeable area of region. I will try to illustrate this over time. Here is the club and supporting photo from the net. Not so keen on the chaps wife. Sorry about the pink but the ironing board seem like a good back drop.
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Robert; 5th December 2017 at 02:55 AM. Reason: Referencing items that are to be offered at auction is against forum policy.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2017, 06:37 PM   #2
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,430
Default

Very nice piece Tim, congratulations. But are you sure its not Amazonian ?
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2017, 03:53 PM   #3
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,734
Default

It was sent to from AUS. It was part of an AUS collection auctioned with some bows and very large paddle. The paddle was clearly PNG. The bows were not obviously PNG. The auction described the items as being collected on the Mambare River. You have to take auction descriptions at time with a pinch of salt. Lots can come to them mixed and they cannot be expert at every thing and may have to take a vendors general ideas for what they are. I think they were right but saying that, just because it can from AUS does not mean all items hail from that part of the world. Take for example this Amazon club which came to me from AUS.
Attached Images
 
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 11:48 PM   #4
fireiceviper
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 87
Default

could i see some closeup pictures of this club?
fireiceviper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2018, 10:44 AM   #5
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,734
Default

Close up pics. This is PNG. Colin was only giving a bit of banter when he suggested Amazon, I think. I can show Amazon clubs made from South American black palm. So far I believe there is only one species of black palm in South America.
Attached Images
       
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2018, 11:33 AM   #6
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,734
Default

Here is the South American black palm. The structure is quite different. The clay/lime inlay is found from South America to Oceania and Australasia.
Attached Images
   
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2018, 03:31 PM   #7
fireiceviper
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 87
Default

I believe there some species that are a lot more similar to your png palmwood, i have some "souvenir" items that have the same kind of wood (not suggesting yours is a souvenir or from the Amazon!!!) ill post them when i get home.

I also believe i have seen the "flower"patterns on some massim war clubs before.
fireiceviper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2018, 04:18 PM   #8
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,734
Default

To tell the truth all our collections are souvenirs. However that is quite different from tourist trade souvenirs.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2018, 09:22 PM   #9
fireiceviper
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 87
Default

camera was acting up a bit.. but i think you can see it... the lighter area is the back of the spear i am holding.
Attached Images
    
fireiceviper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2018, 09:51 AM   #10
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,734
Default

Here is a palm wood club but it does not appear to be the same as the "black" palm wood having a similar structure as the examples you show. A quick research the species of black palm is Astrocaryum standleyanum. The black palm in this link is the same as the black club illustrated earlier.

https://www.woodshopnews.com/news/qu...nes-black-palm
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Tim Simmons; 8th February 2018 at 10:08 AM.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2018, 03:08 AM   #11
KuKulzA28
Member
 
KuKulzA28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: between work and sleep
Posts: 731
Default

I've made things out of palm wood... what I've seen is the outer part is darker and harder and the inner part lighter and more pithy/crumbly I think...

many older examples of clubs, bows, etc all use the dark outer part if possible, many tourist oriented bows and clubs have plenty of the "whiter" part.

I have two bows, possibly both made by Yanomamo, but one is older and was clearly made for hunting and the bow is stronger and is mostly black palmwood, and the other is weaker, and have lots of the inner light streaks
KuKulzA28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.