NICE AFRICAN DAGGER ...but what is it????

katana · 31st March 2007, 10:13 PM

Hi,
acquired this nice, possibly early 20th C, African dagger. Got it cheap as the blade was stuck in the scabbard. Gallons of oil, patience, and 'gentle' brute force finally freed the blade (rust on the blade). Overall very well made and sturdy (the brute force used proved that

) Blade is forged, tempered and relatively thin. The handle has a woven covering with a guard and a 'ring' pommel. The sheath is leather, well made and finely stitched. The leather is woven with reed type material.....which seems to imitate snake/reptile skin. There is a leather 'button' decoration fixed near the scabbard's throat and a 'mushroom' detail (leather covered and stitched) on the scabbard end.
I am very happy with it....it feels 'good' in the hand

...but cannot find a similar dagger to find out it's possible origins.

OAL 13" (approx. 32 cms)
Blade 7" (approx. 15.5cms)

So please if anyone has any ideas or comments I would be grateful.

Thanks
David

Lew · 31st March 2007, 11:12 PM

Katana

I think this dagger belongs to the Dan people of the Ivory coast. I have a similar one in my collection.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 1st April 2007, 09:53 AM

In Armes Traditionelles d'Afrique a dagger of very similar form is illustrated and listed as Mandingo Mali. But as we have seen many times and know, this type of work and form can be found across a great swath of West Africa from Ivory Coast as Lew mentioned to Northern Nigeria. I do not think there are many turtles in Mali or Northern Nigeria

. Except the turtle image is significant throughout the whole region and beyond

.

Lew · 1st April 2007, 02:38 PM

OK here is mine it looks similar but not quite a match.

Lew

katana · 2nd April 2007, 01:38 AM

Hi Lew and Tim,
thanks for the info. Lew your's definately has similar features, but yours also seems to have more age

I began to think that mine maybe circa WW2 (blade profile very similar to the Fairbairn Skykes commando dagger) but your seems very similar in dimensions.

so now I am not so sure....I still think early 20th C . Could yours be mid=late 19th C ?

tom hyle · 3rd April 2007, 05:05 PM

My immediate feeling on the first dagger is Akan; possibly Ashanti. Compare the ring to those on Ahsanti rank swords.

tom hyle · 3rd April 2007, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I do not think there are many turtles in Mali or Northern Nigeria

. Except the turtle image is significant throughout the whole region and beyond

.

I have a wonderful book called "Elephant; the Animal and its Ivory in African culture" It goes region by region, and the depictions and symbology of elephants in areas where they either never lived or no longer do is fairly prevelant and very interesting.

katana · 4th April 2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

My immediate feeling on the first dagger is Akan; possibly Ashanti. Compare the ring to those on Ahsanti rank swords.

Hi Tom,
thanks for the reply.....would you have any images you could post? I have checked 'Spring' and googled...but found nothing

Regards David

Joe · 4th April 2007, 10:03 PM

Here's an Ashanti sword from my archives. The bulbous guard and pommel are similar to those on Lew's dagger, but it has no ring.

katana · 4th April 2007, 11:16 PM

Thanks Joe,
I know of this type of ritual sword.....but could find none that had the ring pommel. Other than Lew's (which has many similar features to my dagger...except it seems to be wearing a fur coat

) I have not seen another like the dagger I posted

Regards David

Lew · 5th April 2007, 12:38 PM

Hi All

I spoke with Wolf and he thinks this is a Mande or Mandingo dagger from West Africa.

Lew

katana · 5th April 2007, 04:18 PM

Thanks Lew and Wolf

for giving me another 'lead' as to its origins...

Regards David

31st March 2007, 10:13 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	NICE AFRICAN DAGGER ...but what is it???? Hi, acquired this nice, possibly early 20th C, African dagger. Got it cheap as the blade was stuck in the scabbard. Gallons of oil, patience, and 'gentle' brute force finally freed the blade (rust on the blade). Overall very well made and sturdy (the brute force used proved that ) Blade is forged, tempered and relatively thin. The handle has a woven covering with a guard and a 'ring' pommel. The sheath is leather, well made and finely stitched. The leather is woven with reed type material.....which seems to imitate snake/reptile skin. There is a leather 'button' decoration fixed near the scabbard's throat and a 'mushroom' detail (leather covered and stitched) on the scabbard end. I am very happy with it....it feels 'good' in the hand ...but cannot find a similar dagger to find out it's possible origins. OAL 13" (approx. 32 cms) Blade 7" (approx. 15.5cms) So please if anyone has any ideas or comments I would be grateful. Thanks David Attached Images

1st April 2007, 09:53 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	In Armes Traditionelles d'Afrique a dagger of very similar form is illustrated and listed as Mandingo Mali. But as we have seen many times and know, this type of work and form can be found across a great swath of West Africa from Ivory Coast as Lew mentioned to Northern Nigeria. I do not think there are many turtles in Mali or Northern Nigeria . Except the turtle image is significant throughout the whole region and beyond . Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 1st April 2007 at 12:23 PM. Reason: A little more reseach

1st April 2007, 02:38 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	OK here is mine it looks similar but not quite a match. Lew Attached Images

4th April 2007, 10:03 PM	#9
Joe Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: McDonough, GA Posts: 48	Here's an Ashanti sword from my archives. The bulbous guard and pommel are similar to those on Lew's dagger, but it has no ring. Attached Images

31st March 2007, 11:12 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Katana I think this dagger belongs to the Dan people of the Ivory coast. I have a similar one in my collection. Lew

2nd April 2007, 01:38 AM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Lew and Tim, thanks for the info. Lew your's definately has similar features, but yours also seems to have more age I began to think that mine maybe circa WW2 (blade profile very similar to the Fairbairn Skykes commando dagger) but your seems very similar in dimensions. so now I am not so sure....I still think early 20th C . Could yours be mid=late 19th C ?

3rd April 2007, 05:05 PM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	My immediate feeling on the first dagger is Akan; possibly Ashanti. Compare the ring to those on Ahsanti rank swords.

4th April 2007, 11:16 PM	#10
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Thanks Joe, I know of this type of ritual sword.....but could find none that had the ring pommel. Other than Lew's (which has many similar features to my dagger...except it seems to be wearing a fur coat ) I have not seen another like the dagger I posted Regards David

5th April 2007, 12:38 PM	#11
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi All I spoke with Wolf and he thinks this is a Mande or Mandingo dagger from West Africa. Lew

5th April 2007, 04:18 PM	#12
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Thanks Lew and Wolf for giving me another 'lead' as to its origins... Regards David