Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th August 2016, 04:09 AM   #1
DaveS
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 324
Default Mandau handle-connection to campilon handle

Up for viewing is a mandau with a very ornately carved handle. Of the many mandaus we own ,this has to be one of my favorites. the question i would like to ask, is there possibly a connection between the form of this handle, and the shape of a campilon handle. I realize that this might be a stretch........BUT, given the fact that the camp was also considered a Sea Dyak weapon, might this shape also be carried over to some of the Land Dyak handles. Or is this too much of a stretch of my imagination...........Dave.
Attached Images
           
DaveS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th August 2016, 04:53 AM   #2
Oliver Pinchot
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 324
Default

Dave, since your question addresses form, I think it would be useful to include a Murut hilt as well.
Oliver Pinchot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th August 2016, 07:38 AM   #3
DaveS
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 324
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot
Dave, since your question addresses form, I think it would be useful to include a Murut hilt as well.

Oliver: I don't know. Somehow to my eye anyway, a Murut hilt just does not look anything like a campilon hilt. I'll have to dig out the pakayun i have and take another good look..........Dave.
DaveS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th August 2016, 04:48 PM   #4
VANDOO
(deceased)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,140
Smile

I THINK THE CONNECTION IS THAT MANY WEAPONS WITH FORKED HANDLES MAY COME FROM THE SAME INSTINCTIVE AND TRADITIONAL WAY MANKIND THINKS AND REPRESENTS THINGS IN HIS ART AND CRAFT. ONE SUCH THING IS DANGEROUS ANIMALS BOTH REAL AND MYTHOLOGICAL ARE OFTEN REPRESENTED WITH THEIR MOUTHS OPEN. DRAGONS, LIONS, TIGERS, CROCODILES AND SUCH ARE MORE OFTEN SHOWING THEIR TEETH THAN NOT. A SWORD POMMEL MAY REPRESENT MANY THINGS USUALLY SOMETHING RESPECTED, FEARED OR BELIEVED TO HAVE SPECIAL POWERS. THE OPEN MOUTHED DRAGON SHOWS POWER AND THE THREAT IT IS GOING TO EAT UP THE ENEMY. NO DOUBT SOME BELIEVES IT GIVES THE WIELDER SOME OF THE CREATURES POWER. IT IS A SIGH OF POWER OR RESPECT AND OFTEN A TOTEM OR SOMETHING RESPECTED AND REVERED BY THE SOCIETY OR WARRIOR. FEARSOME WARRIORS USUALLY DIDN'T FAVOR MICE OR WORMS TO DECORATE THEIR SWORDS.
THERE ARE OTHER DESIGNS ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU GET AWAY FROM PRIMITIVE GROUPS THAT OFTEN REPRESENT HERALDRY, AND SUCH BUT OFTEN FIERCE BEASTS ARE REPRESENTED THERE AS WELL, GRIFFINS, LIONS, UNICORNS AND DRAGONS ABOUND THERE AS WELL AS THISTLES AND FLORAL DESIGNS. THE FORKED POMMEL ALSO HELPS KEEP THE SWORD FIRMLY IN HAND AND FORKED WOOD AND ANTLERS WERE CONVENIENT MATERIALS.
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th August 2016, 06:18 PM   #5
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,587
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveS
Oliver: I don't know. Somehow to my eye anyway, a Murut hilt just does not look anything like a campilon hilt. I'll have to dig out the pakayun i have and take another good look..........Dave.



I think Oliver is referring to the perception of an "open jaw" that the pommel may be perceived to form.
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th August 2016, 08:30 PM   #6
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,995
Default

There might be a possible connection, but that would go way back to the early 16th century, where we have Spanish illustrations of Tagalogs, etc with "open mouth" hilts. This might be a general Austronesian motif at one time. It would appear that later only those on Borneo, Mindanao, and Suliwesi used the kampilan.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th August 2016, 11:44 PM   #7
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,172
Default

Hello Dave,

Thanks for showing this unusual hilt! IMVHO quite a bit of workmanship and it does look to have some decent age, too. The scabbard looks a bit younger to me - do you have a pic of the backside, please?


Quote:
the question i would like to ask, is there possibly a connection between the form of this handle, and the shape of a campilon handle. I realize that this might be a stretch........BUT, given the fact that the camp was also considered a Sea Dyak weapon, might this shape also be carried over to some of the Land Dyak handles.

I have never seen a reliable attribution of the kampilan being utilised by the Iban: the single reference was most likely based on a lapsus. The Iban are known for inviting Ilanum mercenaries when organizing larger raids. Even if the extent and historical duration of such cooperation remains unknown, it is safe to assume that these 2 cultures had already been in contact for a very long time. Given this, I rather am surprised how little cultural cross-fertilisation seems to have happened - so, my guess would be that there is no direct relationship between kampilan hilts (note that on northern Borneo the less jaw-like hilt types prevail) and neither your mandau hilt nor mandau hilts in general...

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st August 2016, 12:10 AM   #8
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,172
Default

Hello Jose,

Quote:
There might be a possible connection, but that would go way back to the early 16th century, where we have Spanish illustrations of Tagalogs, etc with "open mouth" hilts. This might be a general Austronesian motif at one time. It would appear that later only those on Borneo, Mindanao, and Suliwesi used the kampilan.

The kampilan seems pretty much limited to a tribal group and pops up where their seafarers went...

OTOH, the underlying theme of open-jaw hilts seems pervasive throughout pretty much the whole SEA archipelago (notable are the rare Toraja variants from Sulawesi for obviously depicting animal heads; too many more abstract types from all over Indonesia to mention but many definitely linked to such an origin by etymology and symbolism.

Also mandau hilts tend to exhibit lots of open jaws in their carvings; OTOH, I hardly see the tendency to carve/decorate the standard "branch" to make it appear jaw-like per se. Thus, I rather doubt there is a direct relationship/link.

BTW, possibly the same could be argued for the kampilan as well: the old-style hilt types are not very convincing in displaying an open jaw, too.

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 04:19 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.