Tulwar marking question 4

BBJW · 18th February 2007, 08:46 PM

Can anyone please tell me what these markings mean and anything else about this one? Many thanks in advance.

bbjw

Jim McDougall · 20th February 2007, 04:12 AM

Hi Bj,
This is really an unusual tulwar! I have never seen that type of piercing in a tulwar pommel, and the blade on this appears of European backsword form. The double fuller reminds me of a type of Caucasian straight backsword blade that often occurs on Khevsur straight sabres of late 19th c. as does the basic blade profile, but whether this is one of these or actually European is uncertain at this point.
The pierced hilt reminds me of this application sometimes seen on mid-19th c. cavalry sabres on the bowl type guards, particularly Austrian, however I am not suggesting influence, only similarity. As I have noted, this piercing is most unusual, and more research for comparison is needed.

The markings appear to be a native armourers attempt at reproducing the celestial markings from European talismanic blades with moon, stars etc.
The degraded squiggle markings are so vague that the intent is unclear, however similar marks are seen on SEA weapons, and sometimes seen as far to the west as Bengal. Since this tulwar seems far to the northwest, the use of these as markings seems again, unusual.

All best regards,
Jim

Lew · 20th February 2007, 05:24 AM

BBJW

Here is a marking from a kirash I picked up some years back from Artzi.

Lew

Flavio · 20th February 2007, 06:34 PM

Hello BBJW, on my firangi are very similar marks (and also the blade). Unfortunatly I don't know the meaning

Jens Nordlunde · 20th February 2007, 09:47 PM

Hi Flavio,
Why dont you show us a close up of the hilt from different sides?
It is interesting that the markings are a like.
Jens

Flavio · 21st February 2007, 09:34 PM

Hello Jens here are some other pictures of the hilt

Jens Nordlunde · 22nd February 2007, 06:14 PM

Hi Flavio,
Nice solid hilt, not made for showing, but for using. When I look at the decoration on your blade, I get a funny feeling to be looking at a landscape, rather than at a decoration. Some mountains, and where the pass is, the sun is showing - I really don't know why I get this feeling.

Flavio · 22nd February 2007, 06:18 PM

Hi Jens, now that you say this, it's true that the decoration seems a landscape! Really nice

18th February 2007, 08:46 PM	#1
BBJW Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Idaho, USA Posts: 225	Tulwar marking question 4 Can anyone please tell me what these markings mean and anything else about this one? Many thanks in advance. bbjw Attached Images

20th February 2007, 05:24 AM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	BBJW Here is a marking from a kirash I picked up some years back from Artzi. Lew Attached Images

20th February 2007, 06:34 PM	#4
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello BBJW, on my firangi are very similar marks (and also the blade). Unfortunatly I don't know the meaning Attached Images

21st February 2007, 09:34 PM	#6
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Jens here are some other pictures of the hilt Attached Images

20th February 2007, 04:12 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,770	Hi Bj, This is really an unusual tulwar! I have never seen that type of piercing in a tulwar pommel, and the blade on this appears of European backsword form. The double fuller reminds me of a type of Caucasian straight backsword blade that often occurs on Khevsur straight sabres of late 19th c. as does the basic blade profile, but whether this is one of these or actually European is uncertain at this point. The pierced hilt reminds me of this application sometimes seen on mid-19th c. cavalry sabres on the bowl type guards, particularly Austrian, however I am not suggesting influence, only similarity. As I have noted, this piercing is most unusual, and more research for comparison is needed. The markings appear to be a native armourers attempt at reproducing the celestial markings from European talismanic blades with moon, stars etc. The degraded squiggle markings are so vague that the intent is unclear, however similar marks are seen on SEA weapons, and sometimes seen as far to the west as Bengal. Since this tulwar seems far to the northwest, the use of these as markings seems again, unusual. All best regards, Jim

20th February 2007, 09:47 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Hi Flavio, Why dont you show us a close up of the hilt from different sides? It is interesting that the markings are a like. Jens

22nd February 2007, 06:14 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Hi Flavio, Nice solid hilt, not made for showing, but for using. When I look at the decoration on your blade, I get a funny feeling to be looking at a landscape, rather than at a decoration. Some mountains, and where the pass is, the sun is showing - I really don't know why I get this feeling.

22nd February 2007, 06:18 PM	#8
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Jens, now that you say this, it's true that the decoration seems a landscape! Really nice