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Old 5th May 2018, 04:09 PM   #1
Mel H
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Default Kinjal with Damacus / watered blade

Hello All, I've had this, what seems to be generally described as a Caucasian Kinjal, for quite a while now and can't remember seeing one with such a pronounced pattern. It shows mostly in the fullers and gives me the impression that the outer edges of the blade are forged from a more homogeneous material with the pattern welded section only in the centre portion.
The blade is 25 cm (10 inches) long.
I'd be grateful for any information or opinions that may be offered.

Mel.
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Old 6th May 2018, 04:49 PM   #2
ariel
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I am perplexed with the perfectly demarcated borders between the
fuller and the edges, but with both patterns intruding into the opposite's territories.
Could it be false damascening?
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Old 6th May 2018, 05:12 PM   #3
Oliver Pinchot
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This is an Ottoman dagger called a kama dating to the mid-19th c.
The pattern welding is authentic, it's very well forged,
ground and finished. The etching is deep and crisp as well.
A nice example.
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Old 6th May 2018, 06:47 PM   #4
Mel H
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Thanks for the input, I was intrigued by the demarcation and the amount of skill required to keep the line that way during the forging, I have no doubt that it is pattern welded as opposed to false patterning. It's nice to have a name (Kama) that ties it down to a particular style or region.
Mel.
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Old 7th May 2018, 12:31 PM   #5
Lee
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That is indeed a gorgeous example and outstanding work; the pattern welding will only be in the center panel, it looks like there are four bands and I do like the contrast and clarity of that feature in your example. The appearance of perfect demarcation has been enhanced by judicious etching and staining within the fuller area. Nice, really nice. I have had an example for many years also showing great smithing skill and I have extracted an image of this from a document I prepared a few years ago:
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Old 7th May 2018, 03:36 PM   #6
ALEX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel H
Thanks for the input, I was intrigued by the demarcation and the amount of skill required to keep the line that way during the forging, I have no doubt that it is pattern welded as opposed to false patterning. It's nice to have a name (Kama) that ties it down to a particular style or region.
Mel.


Mel, I agree with all above. The core is mechanical/pattern welded with several (4?) rows of twisted wire in a pattern known as "Turkish Ribbon". The "twists" repeat in a sequential order which indicate the technique. It is very fine, and not a false/etched.
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Old 8th May 2018, 04:39 PM   #7
Richard Furrer
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It is common to polish the edges and etch the center. I have seen this on many pieces. The fact that you can clearly see the patterned core extending into the edges and into the tip is not something which would have been very visible (in some light yes) when it was new.
Ric
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Old 8th May 2018, 05:01 PM   #8
mariusgmioc
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Default Watered vs. Pattern

Hello,

Am I correct to assume that "watered" steel refers generally to wootz, while for pattern welded we should use the term "pattern/paterning?"

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Old 9th May 2018, 01:18 PM   #9
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Wootz and mechanical are both references to patterns. The same can be applied to watered/watering, i.e. general terms for patterned steel (although some use it to describe wootz). Better to use crucible vs. mechanical to distinguish the two.
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Old 9th May 2018, 10:11 PM   #10
Mel H
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Lee, thank you for your very interesting document link, I now have a print out and will enjoy taking it in over the next couple of hours.
Mel.
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Old 10th May 2018, 03:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALEX
Wootz and mechanical are both references to patterns. The same can be applied to watered/watering, i.e. general terms for patterned steel (although some use it to describe wootz). Better to use crucible vs. mechanical to distinguish the two.


Thank you for the explanation!
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Old 10th May 2018, 04:35 PM   #12
Jens Nordlunde
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Lee, thank you for the document, it looks very interesting.
Did you know that the chevron blades were made of mono steel and pattern welded steel - never with wootz.

I dont know the reason, but it could have something to do with the heat, when the chevrons had to be forget together.
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