Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 1st July 2015, 03:21 PM   #1
CSinTX
Member
 
CSinTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 232
Default A Poleaxe like Halberd

This halberd recently made its way to my collection. It was originally located in a Chateaux near Versailles in really rough condition. The metal was cleaned and haft replaced. As you can see, the blade is shaped like a traditional poleaxe. It is quite heavy compared to most halberds. The languets seem to be much larger than normal and there is heavy reinforcement where they meet the head. I was thinking it might be circa 1475? Does anyone know of other similar examples? Thoughts on origin? Could it be 15th Century? As always, all comments are welcome.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by CSinTX; 2nd July 2015 at 03:04 PM.
CSinTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st July 2015, 08:03 PM   #2
Marcus den toom
Member
 
Marcus den toom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 493
Default

Hi,

I am no expert on halbeards, but i am quit sure it is more likely a late 16th century version than a 15th century version seeing as the shape does not match any i have seen in the early manuscripts i useally study.

Please, do you also have pictures of this piece before it was cleaned?
It is of course once own choice, but cleaning the steel and replacing the haft just made this piece so much less valuable, historically speaking
Marcus den toom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st July 2015, 11:31 PM   #3
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,617
Default

Is the posted halberd so different from examples in 'German Landsknechts and their Captain' depicted in 'Kriesgordnung' by Hans Döring in 1545 ?

.
Attached Images
 
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2015, 01:57 AM   #4
A Senefelder
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 214
Default

I cannot tell from the pictures. Is the point of the fluke ( the back spike of opposite the axe blade ) thickened at it's tip?
A Senefelder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2015, 02:14 AM   #5
Timo Nieminen
Member
 
Timo Nieminen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 422
Default

Looks mid-16th century. Though at least some of the elements of this style are seen on blades about 1500, most examples I've seen are mid-16th, and some are later. I don't think it could be as early as 1475.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSinTX
It is quite heavy compared to most halberds.
How heavy is it?
Timo Nieminen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2015, 07:52 AM   #6
ulfberth
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 382
Default

Hi Casey,

Like Fernando says it could very well be a landsknecht halberd.
Here is one from the Wallace museum, and it has almost the same patina as the one you have, with the description:
Halberd Germany
early 16th century
Iron or steel and copper alloy
Length: 44.6 cm, blade and socket
Weight: 1.22 kg
Maker's mark Stamped


kind regards
Ulfberth
Attached Images
 
ulfberth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2015, 04:01 PM   #7
CSinTX
Member
 
CSinTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 232
Default

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I tried updating the images with better ones and it let me delete the old ones but not add the new ones. I will add them at the bottom of this post.

I did locate a poleaxe in the Wallace collection with a similar blade but of course it has the usual hammer instead of spike on the rear that is typical of poleaxes. http://wallacelive.wallacecollection...ype=detailView

Marcus, I do not have images of it before it was cleaned. It is my understanding that the haft was in tattered pieces. I understand the hesitation to restore such old items but sometimes I think it is warranted depending on condition.

Fernando, thank you for the great image. I guess to me, the difference is the curved blade. The halberds in your posted image have the more common straight line blade that angles forward. I do have another halberd that I got along with this one that is very similar to the ones in this image. I will try to get it posted soon. Interestingly, when you google search “Landsknecht halberd” many images come up of Landsknecht fighters with curved blade halberds so perhaps it would be a Landsknecht item. See image below-

Senefelder, the tip of the rear spike is slightly thick. I do not think most halberds of this time and design had the really thick “beak like” rounded rear spike found on the more slender Italian or later style halberds. The entire piece is thick and heavy duty likely reducing the need for it.

Timo, I will have to try to weigh it but with a replacement haft any number may be somewhat insignificant. I just know that in the hand it feels much heavier than the other examples I have studied.

Dirk, thank you for the fine example from the Wallace collection. It seems to bridge the gap between my piece and what we normally think of as a poleaxe.
Attached Images
    
CSinTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2015, 06:01 PM   #8
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,617
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSinTX
... Fernando, thank you for the great image. I guess to me, the difference is the curved blade. The halberds in your posted image have the more common straight line blade that angles forward. I do have another halberd that I got along with this one that is very similar to the ones in this image. I will try to get it posted soon. Interestingly, when you google search “Landsknecht halberd” many images come up of Landsknecht fighters with curved blade halberds so perhaps it would be a Landsknecht item...
Still the straight edged and slightly inclined blade bears a position in the Landsknecht halberds records.
See below a publication by George Snook, depicting the photo of a halberd which he assumes as being a Landsknecht example.

.
Attached Images
 
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd September 2020, 04:23 AM   #9
CSinTX
Member
 
CSinTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 232
Default

I recently lucked in to IDing this mark from a similar example and wanted to add the info to the record here.

"In the period from 1586 to 1591, Claus Lerchli from Kempten supplied Zurich with halberds, murder axes and bill hooks."
Attached Images
  
CSinTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.