New Mangbetu sickled knife

Luc LEFEBVRE · 6th March 2008, 10:02 PM

I've found a big new one, with ivory hilt, nice piece with unusal form.
Luc

Lew · 6th March 2008, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luc LEFEBVRE

I've found a big new one, with ivory hilt, nice piece with unusal form.
Luc

I don't know Luc it doesn't look new to me? Seems to be an nice old one

Really nice trumbash congrats!

Lew

Tim Simmons · 7th March 2008, 06:58 AM

Very nice, a masterpiece no less

. Lucky chap.

Freddy · 8th March 2008, 07:06 PM

Very nice piece, Luc

Now that we are talking about Mangbetu sickle knives, I want to show you this one :

It's a Mangbetu sickle knife as we often see them, but two features are uncommon, I think.
First there is the size : the total length is 32,5 cm with a blade about 17 cm long. That's quite small compared to some of my other Mangbetu pieces. The blade is very thick.
Secondly, the blade has been coloured red and white on both sides. I've seen this on Congolese execution knives, but never on a Manbetu piece.

Any comments ? Here a two pics.

Luc LEFEBVRE · 9th March 2008, 05:29 PM

Hello Freddy,
The Mangbetu style has been copied by a lot of neighbours : Zande, Boa, Barambo, Mumvu...
The Mangbetu old knives are most of the time very well forged, with nice handle.
The handle of your example is out of proportion to the blade, and it is not well forged.
Some trumbash are used as tools but not with colours, this is a ceremonial knife.
Maybe from another group ?
Luc

Freddy · 9th March 2008, 07:28 PM

Luc, you could be right, probably a copy from a neighbouring tribe. i also believe it's a cult knife.

The blade was probably, at some time, 'married' to this bigger handle. Although, in my opinion, it has been with this blade for quite some time.

The knife blade is thick (about 1 cm at the base of the blade). I haven't cleaned it and i'm not planning to do so. The coloured blade appeals to me.

Here's a painted knife I found in one of my books. According to the author from the Ngul and/or Yanzi-tribe. This one has spots painted on it.

Flavio · 10th March 2008, 01:53 PM

Hello Luc and Freddy! Some time ago I had this kuba nshaal with white and red painted blade.

P.S. Luc, congratulations, wonderful piece!!!

Luc LEFEBVRE · 10th March 2008, 10:02 PM

I think we have all see sometimes a knife or a shield with colored lines or dots...
It' generally accepted that in Africa :
white = color of the dead (also to prevent or cure from death)
red = color of blood = vital force
black = color of the night = invisible = mystery = pain

It's not true everywhere, but often like that.
Luc

Tim Simmons · 28th February 2010, 07:15 PM

Just want to join you here Luc. Interesting link.

http://www.penn.museum/documents/pub...20-3/Lambrecht.

6th March 2008, 10:02 PM	#1
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 472	New Mangbetu sickled knife I've found a big new one, with ivory hilt, nice piece with unusal form. Luc Attached Images

10th March 2008, 01:53 PM	#7
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Luc and Freddy! Some time ago I had this kuba nshaal with white and red painted blade. P.S. Luc, congratulations, wonderful piece!!! Attached Images

28th February 2010, 07:15 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Just want to join you here Luc. Interesting link. http://www.penn.museum/documents/pub...20-3/Lambrecht. Attached Images

7th March 2008, 06:58 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Very nice, a masterpiece no less . Lucky chap.

8th March 2008, 07:06 PM	#4
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Very nice piece, Luc Now that we are talking about Mangbetu sickle knives, I want to show you this one : It's a Mangbetu sickle knife as we often see them, but two features are uncommon, I think. First there is the size : the total length is 32,5 cm with a blade about 17 cm long. That's quite small compared to some of my other Mangbetu pieces. The blade is very thick. Secondly, the blade has been coloured red and white on both sides. I've seen this on Congolese execution knives, but never on a Manbetu piece. Any comments ? Here a two pics.

9th March 2008, 05:29 PM	#5
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 472	Hello Freddy, The Mangbetu style has been copied by a lot of neighbours : Zande, Boa, Barambo, Mumvu... The Mangbetu old knives are most of the time very well forged, with nice handle. The handle of your example is out of proportion to the blade, and it is not well forged. Some trumbash are used as tools but not with colours, this is a ceremonial knife. Maybe from another group ? Luc

9th March 2008, 07:28 PM	#6
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Luc, you could be right, probably a copy from a neighbouring tribe. i also believe it's a cult knife. The blade was probably, at some time, 'married' to this bigger handle. Although, in my opinion, it has been with this blade for quite some time. The knife blade is thick (about 1 cm at the base of the blade). I haven't cleaned it and i'm not planning to do so. The coloured blade appeals to me. Here's a painted knife I found in one of my books. According to the author from the Ngul and/or Yanzi-tribe. This one has spots painted on it.

10th March 2008, 10:02 PM	#8
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 472	I think we have all see sometimes a knife or a shield with colored lines or dots... It' generally accepted that in Africa : white = color of the dead (also to prevent or cure from death) red = color of blood = vital force black = color of the night = invisible = mystery = pain It's not true everywhere, but often like that. Luc