Question on copy right.

Tim Simmons · 9th December 2016, 08:28 PM

What is the point of having and posting on a forum and using copy right ? Should this site be totally free.

kai · 10th December 2016, 11:01 AM

Hello Tim,

Quote:

What is the point of having and posting on a forum and using copy right ? Should this site be totally free.

I'm not sure what you refer to - maybe you want to elaborate?

Participating on our forum is free and the longstanding policy is: "Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here."
That's a lot better than just sending anything in a private email via Gmail/etc.; not to mention FB & Co.!

I for one would not want any info I freely share here to be utilized for commercial activities, etc. - so a general forum copyright does not seem like a bad idea IMHO. What do you propose? (Note that discussing forum policies is frowned upon and should be taken to Lee and the mods via PM; a bit of brainstorming may not hurt though...

)

Regards,
Kai

ariel · 10th December 2016, 12:52 PM

I seem to have an example.

Currently, some e-bay seller tries to sell a very interesting sword. I shall post pics and text when the auction ends.

In his description he cites a thread from this Forum allegedly proving high value of his item. In fact, the original discussion showed beyond doubt that a similar ( in fact identical) sword was a modern replica.

1. Did he violate Forum's copyright just by citing its materials without legal permission?

2. Does his willful misrepresentation of the context constitute an attempt to falsely implicate the Forum as an accomplice in his fraudulent activity?

3. Can owners of the Forum sue him?

Moderators and lawyers, please pitch in!

ariel · 10th December 2016, 01:16 PM

Other variants:

Commercial: Mr. X sells his item on e-bay. Can he write in the description " For detailed iconographic materials please see Vikingsword thread at www.... etc"?

Non-commercial: Mr.Y submits a research manuscript to a professional journal. Can he refer to a Forum thread as a source of information in the Discussion section?

Ridiculous: Mr. Z posts his item internally on the Sale and Swaps and wants to advertise its high historical and monetary value. Is it permissible to cite an opinion supporting his assessment on another internal and integral forum ( say, dealing with Antique European topic) ?

Jens Nordlunde · 10th December 2016, 03:25 PM

I am afraid it is hard to avoid. Some of my weapons - I dont know how many - are on one of the picture links, where you can see a lot of pictures, and sometimes you get a place of origin and a year, but that is all.
I dont know who put them there, but I dont think they should be there.
To sue someone in another country is slow, very expensive, and the one 'stealing/copying' the text/pictures knows this, so the risk is not very big.

kronckew · 10th December 2016, 04:14 PM

i find the images i posted here turn up in google searches quite frequently, sometimes i even see them posted on other sites, if germain, i'll post there if i am a member that the photo & item is mine & want them to know, if they don't already mention me. i don't particulalrly mind, unless they try to claim it or use it commercially. you do NOT need to actually mark it like below to retain copyright, but it helps. i occasionally add a copyright symbol & date on the picture in an innocuous area, if i am posting it in a more public forum.

ie.:

Tim Simmons · 10th December 2016, 04:52 PM

I guess I may be rather naive and believe in unworldly exchange of learning, images, research and information { or perhaps my stuff is rubbish and not worth anything } . Almost forgot that possibly people can be nice.

Lee · 10th December 2016, 06:00 PM

The statement at the bottom of every page is there for two reasons:
First, to acknowledge the current state of copyright law in much of the world that even without a proper notice something is copyrighted when created. Some forums will claim ownership of what is posted, no such claim has ever been made here, except...
Second, we do claim a license for the continued display of the materials in the narrow context of these forums. This is intended to increase archival stability of our collected works here (in the same manner as the images as attachments policy). Several times a year I will receive demands that threads be removed because "the buyer of the item has demanded this" - that statement allows the Moderator Team to deny those requests.

Commercial use: There is really nothing practical we can do about someone unassociated with the forums placing a link to a discussion from an online auction beyond reporting them to the auction site for a policy violation. You can link to just about anything you want - that is what the 'web' is about. If you find a member here doing that, report it to the Moderator Team - it is a offense that one may be banned for.
Noncommercial use: This is not restricted. Example: I have been engaged in selling Lew's collection on behalf of his family. As I catalog the collection, I will often find where he presented the item in these forums. I do not place that link on the auction site or the description pages of items for sale - I too respect and fear the Moderator Team. Once the item has been sold, I move the page to the archive and will then add those links to what my research found.

ariel · 11th December 2016, 04:38 AM

BTW, my promise to post the mention of a thread on our Forum by the seller of the "interesting sword" will not be fulfilled.

Before I posted my entry here, I contacted the seller and told him that the actual discussion concluded that the sword was in fact a fake.

He immediately removed the reference. Likely, he did not want potential buyers to see his misrepresentation:-)

But I stll will post his pictures and cite our thread when his auction ends.

Battara · 11th December 2016, 05:06 AM

Ariel posting after the auction ends is fine.

I think that we could end this discussion since I don't see anymore point to the discussion after Lee's posting.

9th December 2016, 08:28 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	Question on copy right. What is the point of having and posting on a forum and using copy right ? Should this site be totally free.

10th December 2016, 12:52 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I seem to have an example. Currently, some e-bay seller tries to sell a very interesting sword. I shall post pics and text when the auction ends. In his description he cites a thread from this Forum allegedly proving high value of his item. In fact, the original discussion showed beyond doubt that a similar ( in fact identical) sword was a modern replica. 1. Did he violate Forum's copyright just by citing its materials without legal permission? 2. Does his willful misrepresentation of the context constitute an attempt to falsely implicate the Forum as an accomplice in his fraudulent activity? 3. Can owners of the Forum sue him? Moderators and lawyers, please pitch in! Last edited by ariel; 10th December 2016 at 01:17 PM.

10th December 2016, 03:25 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	I am afraid it is hard to avoid. Some of my weapons - I dont know how many - are on one of the picture links, where you can see a lot of pictures, and sometimes you get a place of origin and a year, but that is all. I dont know who put them there, but I dont think they should be there. To sue someone in another country is slow, very expensive, and the one 'stealing/copying' the text/pictures knows this, so the risk is not very big. Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 10th December 2016 at 03:59 PM.

10th December 2016, 04:14 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	i find the images i posted here turn up in google searches quite frequently, sometimes i even see them posted on other sites, if germain, i'll post there if i am a member that the photo & item is mine & want them to know, if they don't already mention me. i don't particulalrly mind, unless they try to claim it or use it commercially. you do NOT need to actually mark it like below to retain copyright, but it helps. i occasionally add a copyright symbol & date on the picture in an innocuous area, if i am posting it in a more public forum. ie.: Attached Images

10th December 2016, 06:00 PM	#8
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 887	Musings The statement at the bottom of every page is there for two reasons: First, to acknowledge the current state of copyright law in much of the world that even without a proper notice something is copyrighted when created. Some forums will claim ownership of what is posted, no such claim has ever been made here, except... Second, we do claim a license for the continued display of the materials in the narrow context of these forums. This is intended to increase archival stability of our collected works here (in the same manner as the images as attachments policy). Several times a year I will receive demands that threads be removed because "the buyer of the item has demanded this" - that statement allows the Moderator Team to deny those requests. Commercial use: There is really nothing practical we can do about someone unassociated with the forums placing a link to a discussion from an online auction beyond reporting them to the auction site for a policy violation. You can link to just about anything you want - that is what the 'web' is about. If you find a member here doing that, report it to the Moderator Team - it is a offense that one may be banned for. Noncommercial use: This is not restricted. Example: I have been engaged in selling Lew's collection on behalf of his family. As I catalog the collection, I will often find where he presented the item in these forums. I do not place that link on the auction site or the description pages of items for sale - I too respect and fear the Moderator Team. Once the item has been sold, I move the page to the archive and will then add those links to what my research found.

10th December 2016, 01:16 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Other variants: Commercial: Mr. X sells his item on e-bay. Can he write in the description " For detailed iconographic materials please see Vikingsword thread at www.... etc"? Non-commercial: Mr.Y submits a research manuscript to a professional journal. Can he refer to a Forum thread as a source of information in the Discussion section? Ridiculous: Mr. Z posts his item internally on the Sale and Swaps and wants to advertise its high historical and monetary value. Is it permissible to cite an opinion supporting his assessment on another internal and integral forum ( say, dealing with Antique European topic) ?

10th December 2016, 04:52 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	I guess I may be rather naive and believe in unworldly exchange of learning, images, research and information { or perhaps my stuff is rubbish and not worth anything } . Almost forgot that possibly people can be nice.

11th December 2016, 04:38 AM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	BTW, my promise to post the mention of a thread on our Forum by the seller of the "interesting sword" will not be fulfilled. Before I posted my entry here, I contacted the seller and told him that the actual discussion concluded that the sword was in fact a fake. He immediately removed the reference. Likely, he did not want potential buyers to see his misrepresentation:-) But I stll will post his pictures and cite our thread when his auction ends.

11th December 2016, 05:06 AM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Ariel posting after the auction ends is fine. I think that we could end this discussion since I don't see anymore point to the discussion after Lee's posting.