has anyone seen the "deadliest warrior" show ?

pallas · 27th July 2009, 07:40 PM

i dident know what forum to put this in but this show, although more often than not grossly inaccurate and rather hokey, is one of the few shows that even deal with ancient warriors and their weaponry. just wondering what everyones view is on this show, like it? hate it?

M ELEY · 28th July 2009, 05:14 AM

I personally like it, despite it's limitations. As a collector whose occupation is in medicine, I can appreciate the sort of CSI effects being displayed. I particularly like when they demonstrate different weapon attacks on that fake torso complete with circulating blood. Gory, but it gets the point across. I have only caught a few episodes, but in general, they seem to be fair with their opinions...but opinions they are. No one would really know who would win a real fight between the two protagonists, even if one culture possessed superior weaponry or armor. Adaptation and strategy have a huge affect as well, after all. So an Apache war club bounces off a gladiator's helmet? That same club delivered to the neck or face would be devastating...

sabertasche · 29th July 2009, 05:20 PM

I find the show typically hollywood hooie

. Vikings vrs Samurai??

The one episode I found most outlandish was the Roman Gladiator vrs the Apache Indian - who was the most dangerous or just really, really rude

I found the fight senarios insane and the stereotypes rampant. Apparently all gladiators are body builders with no cardio fitness or brains and the Apache are sneaky.

It's hard to take the show seriously although the weapons tests have lots of blood and guts flying everywhere which makes for great eye candy. (expensive transparent ballistic gel heads and torsos with coloured organs which spout fake blood and tissue when crushed, penitrated and otherwise abused).

Not very educational, sadly, my nephew believed all of it (which explains his history marks).

Greg

Jim McDougall · 29th July 2009, 06:12 PM

I have always dreaded these 'katana vs. rapier' type fiasco's, despite the video game type of scenario from an entertainment point of view projecting interesting perspectives. Since I have always thought of myself as a historian for my passion in studying every conceivable aspect of the subject, it is difficult for my feeble imagination to comprehend these kinds of contrived situations.

I am however inclined to find Mark's interpretation very well placed, and although I generally do not like to focus on the physiological dynamics of the use of weapons, it is indeed fascinating when considered forensically. It is an unpleasant reality that sometimes must be considered when trying to understand a weapon or its form and the practical application of its elements.

It always has amazed me in many movies, the complete inaccuracy of fistfights for example, where most of the blows would most definitely result in much more than a trickle of blood from the corner of the mouth. In other more 'realistic' examples, it seems to have become increasingly popular to revel in gore. It does not seem that such realism would need to be shown graphically to carry the plot or drama, but the sensationalism is what appeals to the modern social phenomenon of voyuerism.

I once read through a facinating reference on the actual physical aspects of sword combat with rapiers and duelling, and the nature of the wounds that would be experienced. It was extremely well presented, enough so that the reader was inclined to remain entirely objective, and was incredibly educational. For example, I did not know that duellists typically chose daybreak or early hours for duelling to avoid eating before combat. Presumptively this was to avoid mortal infection in the case of abdominal penetration.....obviously probably not necessary effective, but it does suggest the awareness of peritonitis.. pretty good I thought for Renaissance medical knowledge.

It sounds as if the demonstrations in the film would have been better served if matching somewhat feasible opponents, at least from the same period.

Another topic I have seen covered in archaeological perspective is the forensic examination of human remains from battle sites, and reviewing the types of wounds reflecting both weapon forms and the likely methods in combat.

All best regards,
Jim

pallas · 29th July 2009, 10:27 PM

there are rumors of a mountain man vs mongol and sikh vs conquistador matchups next season

Rick · 30th July 2009, 02:23 AM

Deadliest Catch is more my speed .

A different kind of combat .

Jim McDougall · 30th July 2009, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pallas

there are rumors of a mountain man vs mongol and sikh vs conquistador matchups next season

Oh no!!!!

Rick, 'Deadliest Catch', you Cod guys! now theres tough!!!!

Sikh_soldier · 2nd September 2009, 10:01 AM

I agree with the points made in that it is a little melodramatic, however I like the episode of pirates v knights because of the weapons testing.

It was amazing to find out how much force the Goodmorning star could unleash upon impact, very impressive. I turned over after that however.

I would also naturally be interested in the Sikh v conquistador !

Bally

Andrew · 2nd September 2009, 01:33 PM

As Mark said, I appreciate the bits where the producers demonstrate weapons damage on ballistics gel targets and such.

However, the "experts" they get to talk about the weapons and "martial arts" they use are ridiculous.

M ELEY · 5th September 2009, 05:46 AM

It's too bad that this show couldn't have just concentrated on the history of the people being studied, their ways of warefare and their devastating weapons/attacks. Could you imagine a show where they would use that ballistic bust/torso and head and show the affects of all the various Polynesian clubs, IndoPersian weapons (a Madu, tiger's claw or Coorg knife!), Kingsmill Island shark tooth spear to the gut, etc, etc. They could have kept it more cultural, more historical and just as interesting instead of making it like some sci-fi time travel piece. Too bad...

A Senefelder · 7th September 2009, 03:08 PM

I have had VERY limited exposure to the show, but one of the things i've noticed is that while it focuses a fair amount on how much damage the various weapons are capable of imparting, they generally don't deal to much with the amount of punishment the human body can take which leaves a hovering impression that taking a just a whack or two from alot of these impliments will be immediately leathal ( something Hollywood has already in large part set in the modern mindset, armour always fails, the sword,axe,arrow always penetrates, and everyon who gets shot gets blown backwards 10 feet ).

I was lucky enouhg to sit in a bit at a Western Martial Arts conferece we were set up at in 2004 on a class in medieval weapons and human physiology, taught be a pair of doctors. They talked at length about how tough it really is to immediately incapacitate a human being and used a number of examples, both modern and period. A few I remember were the story ( this was a while ago but I believe this was culled from the journal of the doctor who treated the case, if I recall correctly ) from a German landkneskeckt regiment. Several fellows were gaming at dice, one angered at another over his losses began to fight. The end result was that one of the participants walked under his own power into the doctors tent with the blade of a halberd buried in his head, which was removed succesfully and he lived. Another was the story of a farmer in the midwest in the 90's whos tractor rolled over while he was on it, crushing his arm beneath it. He was forced to cut away the crushed limb with I think a pocket knife in order to escape. He went to his house, his wife applied a belt as a tornequet, after she dressed, and they then drove the 40-50 miles to the hospital, stopping for coffee on the way. The last one I remember distincly was the story of the two fellas, again in the 90's who had imbibed a bit to much while screwing around with a sword cane. One fella ran the other completley through the center of the chest. It was nearly 8 hours before the fella who'd been impaled felt bad enough to seek medical attention. Humans are an odd combination of fragile ( we can be injured relatively easilly ) and tough ( it takes a fair amount to put us out of action for good ), combined with will power there is a huge variable in any martial trial that is very difficult to calculate, and also impossible to ignore if the analysis is to be serious. Its not a bad show ( it is meant to be entertaining first and foremost ) but from the little i've seen of it, I wouldn't mind seeing the toughness of human physiology acknowleged as more of a factor in martial actions.

27th July 2009, 07:40 PM	#1
pallas Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 53	has anyone seen the "deadliest warrior" show ? i dident know what forum to put this in but this show, although more often than not grossly inaccurate and rather hokey, is one of the few shows that even deal with ancient warriors and their weaponry. just wondering what everyones view is on this show, like it? hate it?

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28th July 2009, 05:14 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	I personally like it, despite it's limitations. As a collector whose occupation is in medicine, I can appreciate the sort of CSI effects being displayed. I particularly like when they demonstrate different weapon attacks on that fake torso complete with circulating blood. Gory, but it gets the point across. I have only caught a few episodes, but in general, they seem to be fair with their opinions...but opinions they are. No one would really know who would win a real fight between the two protagonists, even if one culture possessed superior weaponry or armor. Adaptation and strategy have a huge affect as well, after all. So an Apache war club bounces off a gladiator's helmet? That same club delivered to the neck or face would be devastating...

29th July 2009, 05:20 PM	#3
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	I find the show typically hollywood hooie . Vikings vrs Samurai?? The one episode I found most outlandish was the Roman Gladiator vrs the Apache Indian - who was the most dangerous or just really, really rude I found the fight senarios insane and the stereotypes rampant. Apparently all gladiators are body builders with no cardio fitness or brains and the Apache are sneaky. It's hard to take the show seriously although the weapons tests have lots of blood and guts flying everywhere which makes for great eye candy. (expensive transparent ballistic gel heads and torsos with coloured organs which spout fake blood and tissue when crushed, penitrated and otherwise abused). Not very educational, sadly, my nephew believed all of it (which explains his history marks). Greg

29th July 2009, 06:12 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,735	I have always dreaded these 'katana vs. rapier' type fiasco's, despite the video game type of scenario from an entertainment point of view projecting interesting perspectives. Since I have always thought of myself as a historian for my passion in studying every conceivable aspect of the subject, it is difficult for my feeble imagination to comprehend these kinds of contrived situations. I am however inclined to find Mark's interpretation very well placed, and although I generally do not like to focus on the physiological dynamics of the use of weapons, it is indeed fascinating when considered forensically. It is an unpleasant reality that sometimes must be considered when trying to understand a weapon or its form and the practical application of its elements. It always has amazed me in many movies, the complete inaccuracy of fistfights for example, where most of the blows would most definitely result in much more than a trickle of blood from the corner of the mouth. In other more 'realistic' examples, it seems to have become increasingly popular to revel in gore. It does not seem that such realism would need to be shown graphically to carry the plot or drama, but the sensationalism is what appeals to the modern social phenomenon of voyuerism. I once read through a facinating reference on the actual physical aspects of sword combat with rapiers and duelling, and the nature of the wounds that would be experienced. It was extremely well presented, enough so that the reader was inclined to remain entirely objective, and was incredibly educational. For example, I did not know that duellists typically chose daybreak or early hours for duelling to avoid eating before combat. Presumptively this was to avoid mortal infection in the case of abdominal penetration.....obviously probably not necessary effective, but it does suggest the awareness of peritonitis.. pretty good I thought for Renaissance medical knowledge. It sounds as if the demonstrations in the film would have been better served if matching somewhat feasible opponents, at least from the same period. Another topic I have seen covered in archaeological perspective is the forensic examination of human remains from battle sites, and reviewing the types of wounds reflecting both weapon forms and the likely methods in combat. All best regards, Jim

29th July 2009, 10:27 PM	#5
pallas Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 53	there are rumors of a mountain man vs mongol and sikh vs conquistador matchups next season

30th July 2009, 02:23 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	Deadliest Catch is more my speed . A different kind of combat .

2nd September 2009, 10:01 AM	#8
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	I agree with the points made in that it is a little melodramatic, however I like the episode of pirates v knights because of the weapons testing. It was amazing to find out how much force the Goodmorning star could unleash upon impact, very impressive. I turned over after that however. I would also naturally be interested in the Sikh v conquistador ! Bally

2nd September 2009, 01:33 PM	#9
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	As Mark said, I appreciate the bits where the producers demonstrate weapons damage on ballistics gel targets and such. However, the "experts" they get to talk about the weapons and "martial arts" they use are ridiculous.

5th September 2009, 05:46 AM	#10
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,066	It's too bad that this show couldn't have just concentrated on the history of the people being studied, their ways of warefare and their devastating weapons/attacks. Could you imagine a show where they would use that ballistic bust/torso and head and show the affects of all the various Polynesian clubs, IndoPersian weapons (a Madu, tiger's claw or Coorg knife!), Kingsmill Island shark tooth spear to the gut, etc, etc. They could have kept it more cultural, more historical and just as interesting instead of making it like some sci-fi time travel piece. Too bad...

7th September 2009, 03:08 PM	#11
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	I have had VERY limited exposure to the show, but one of the things i've noticed is that while it focuses a fair amount on how much damage the various weapons are capable of imparting, they generally don't deal to much with the amount of punishment the human body can take which leaves a hovering impression that taking a just a whack or two from alot of these impliments will be immediately leathal ( something Hollywood has already in large part set in the modern mindset, armour always fails, the sword,axe,arrow always penetrates, and everyon who gets shot gets blown backwards 10 feet ). I was lucky enouhg to sit in a bit at a Western Martial Arts conferece we were set up at in 2004 on a class in medieval weapons and human physiology, taught be a pair of doctors. They talked at length about how tough it really is to immediately incapacitate a human being and used a number of examples, both modern and period. A few I remember were the story ( this was a while ago but I believe this was culled from the journal of the doctor who treated the case, if I recall correctly ) from a German landkneskeckt regiment. Several fellows were gaming at dice, one angered at another over his losses began to fight. The end result was that one of the participants walked under his own power into the doctors tent with the blade of a halberd buried in his head, which was removed succesfully and he lived. Another was the story of a farmer in the midwest in the 90's whos tractor rolled over while he was on it, crushing his arm beneath it. He was forced to cut away the crushed limb with I think a pocket knife in order to escape. He went to his house, his wife applied a belt as a tornequet, after she dressed, and they then drove the 40-50 miles to the hospital, stopping for coffee on the way. The last one I remember distincly was the story of the two fellas, again in the 90's who had imbibed a bit to much while screwing around with a sword cane. One fella ran the other completley through the center of the chest. It was nearly 8 hours before the fella who'd been impaled felt bad enough to seek medical attention. Humans are an odd combination of fragile ( we can be injured relatively easilly ) and tough ( it takes a fair amount to put us out of action for good ), combined with will power there is a huge variable in any martial trial that is very difficult to calculate, and also impossible to ignore if the analysis is to be serious. Its not a bad show ( it is meant to be entertaining first and foremost ) but from the little i've seen of it, I wouldn't mind seeing the toughness of human physiology acknowleged as more of a factor in martial actions.