Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Miscellania
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 21st September 2020, 09:06 PM   #1
Oliver Pinchot
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 467
Default

A DISTANT MIRROR, by Barbara Tuchman, 1978, concerns the de Coucy family.
It's quite detailed; perhaps it can offer some insight.
Oliver Pinchot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2020, 09:53 AM   #2
AHorsa
Member
 
AHorsa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Rhineland
Posts: 375
Default

Thanks for your replies and the book tip!

As the Seine also crosses Paris, I think it is possible that it was found somewhere in this area as Paris was already the capital in medieval ages, although the linear distance is ~100 km. It also seems that the plaque was removed from where ever it was attached forcefully...

I found an interesting similar piece on the internet:

https://www.pinterest.de/pin/365213851005646944/

http://www.la-detection.com/dp/message-2902.htm

Best regards
Andreas
AHorsa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2020, 03:28 PM   #3
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,344
Default A Belt Applique

Makes sense.

http://www.la-detection.com/dp/message-2902.htm
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2020, 06:58 PM   #4
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Perhaps a bit too large for a vervelle.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2020, 08:29 PM   #5
AHorsa
Member
 
AHorsa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Rhineland
Posts: 375
Default

Or maybe a horse trapping
AHorsa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2020, 11:27 AM   #6
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHorsa
Or maybe a horse trapping
What do you mean by that, Andreas ?
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2020, 03:28 PM   #7
AHorsa
Member
 
AHorsa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Rhineland
Posts: 375
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
What do you mean by that, Andreas ?
Horse trappings means something like a horse harness (but more a textile piece I guess): e.g.: https://www.pinterest.de/pin/4645041...c_v2=1a5oPbRcf
But on the examples I´ve found so far the shields were made from textile / embroided. Which makes more practical sense in my eyes than stitching a metal shield on it as you also mentioned.

I´ve found some examples of very huge horse harness pendants (eg: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collec...70010723?img=0 ) but it is still a pendant, not an applique.


What you interpret as letters, Fernando, is just irregularities in the material. Actually I think that this red material is maybe a later replacement to lost enamel and maybe seal lacquer or so


I´ve also postet it in a forum specialized in archaeological medieval findings and there it was stated that it is an authentic piece from 13th century. So it likely could be linked to the period of Enguerrand IV
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enguerrand_IV_de_Coucy
Appart from dating it there was also no clue about what it could have been exactly for
Attached Images
 

Last edited by AHorsa; 23rd September 2020 at 03:41 PM.
AHorsa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2020, 11:42 AM   #8
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Perhaps a bit too large for a vervelle.
Going back into the period, a vervelle could either be an (heraldic) adornment to attach to a belt or to a horse harness. The ones i have spotted so far are slightly smaller than Adreas example.
I guess many reasons could originate its falling off. If in fact it was an implement adorning any part of a knight's personal ot horse's gear, it could have been ripped out while in combat.
On the other hand, we can't exclude the possibility that, wherever it was riveted, belt, harness, box, armor, uniform, someone took it off ... and temporarily keep it as a trophy.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2020, 01:24 PM   #9
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Are theses letters ... or is it only my imagination ? .


.
Attached Images
 
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.