UNKNOWN DAGGER FOR ID.

VANDOO · 14th February 2012, 04:26 AM

HERE IS A UNUSUAL DAGGER FOR DISCUSSION. THE ONLY INFORMATION I HAVE ON IT IS IT IS FROM A COUNTRY IN THE MEDITERRANEAN AREA. IT MUST HAVE HAD SOME SPECIAL USE TO HAVE SUCH AN UNUSUAL FORM OF BLADE.

kahnjar1 · 14th February 2012, 05:03 AM

Is that a slot I see towards the blade tip? If so it could be some sort of sewing tool...maybe for sails?
Stu

David R · 14th February 2012, 06:12 PM

It looks very like the classic "Mediterranian Dirk" but with a stiletto point. Makes sense actualy, a knife edge for utility cutting and a stiletto point for combat. A real bespoke piece and very nice to have.

Stan S. · 14th February 2012, 11:26 PM

An eating utensil? The point can be used as a skewer (instead of a fork) and the cutting ege is for cutting... Just a guess

Atlantia · 15th February 2012, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Is that a slot I see towards the blade tip? If so it could be some sort of sewing tool...maybe for sails?
Stu

My first thought was the same mate.
A blade to cut the sail-cloth, an awl to make the holes and a hook to pull the yarn through.
Just a guess though.
It's certainly a good looking and quality item. I'd also agree mediterranean. Possibly naval rather than 'fisherman'.

Atlantia · 15th February 2012, 09:49 AM

Definately looks European though Barry. You could try the Euro forum?

fspic · 16th February 2012, 12:25 AM

The fluting (or whatever) suggests this is Italian (or maybe French) as they are the main ones who heavily used that sort of decoration - it is also found in furniture. It doth have a Baroque-ish smack to it. A distant variant is the spiral columns of the Vatican altar.

As for the application, if there is a hole in the end it would likely be used for pulling cord, but if not sails then maybe upholstery. If the blade is sharp or has a slightly chisel edge that may give a clue to use.

Indianajones · 16th February 2012, 03:35 PM

The handle looks like it is made of a cut section of twisted vine (tropical?) more than carved, is it? Is it wood at all?
To me it certainly looks like a specialised tool from around the 1830's, perhaps Italian or Spanish as does the iron decoration indicate.
It certainly belonged to a craftman specialised in a particular job, maybe on mainland or maybe on board of a ship (hence the tropical addition?).
>>>just my humble thoughts on this item<<

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 9th April 2014, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

HERE IS A UNUSUAL DAGGER FOR DISCUSSION. THE ONLY INFORMATION I HAVE ON IT IS IT IS FROM A COUNTRY IN THE MEDITERRANEAN AREA. IT MUST HAVE HAD SOME SPECIAL USE TO HAVE SUCH AN UNUSUAL FORM OF BLADE.

Salaams VANDOO ~ I was researching something quite obscure (Genoese Naval Swords) and bumped into the Genoese Knife style you show at # 1. Please see www.sangiorgioaste.com

Solved !!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Tim Simmons · 9th April 2014, 02:07 PM

Looks like the skewer in a meat carving set.

kronckew · 9th April 2014, 02:20 PM

so, what is it?
(i can't read the illustrated page, ibrahim)
(also can't read italian

)

the perforated tip does lend itself to some sort of sailor's dagger also used for sail repair and/or fancy knotwork.

Emanuel · 9th April 2014, 03:09 PM

Hello,

This a Genovese knife "con passacorda", referring to the thin blade tip. It was supposedly indeed used for rigging and knots.

The slit in the blade, or sometimes in the tang when the handle unscrews from the blade, is known as the "cruna" and basically makes a larger threading needle.

That's a wonderful book by the way with excellent information, but in Italian. I will look up the specific info when I get home tonight.

Here is a page from "Dizionari Terminologici - Armi Bianche dal Mediebo all'Eta Moderna" (Florence, 1980) for additional reference. See F and G, terms, 10 and 26.

Emanuel

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 9th April 2014, 05:07 PM

I got a reasonable translation by pressing the little flag top right on the website reference but anyway this is not only an excellent matelots weapon/ rigging tool but became famous as a dastardly dagger up the back alleyways in Genoa on dark nights...and the book goes on to describe its reputation and prohibition as an illegal blade..I cant think why...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

14th February 2012, 04:26 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	UNKNOWN DAGGER FOR ID. HERE IS A UNUSUAL DAGGER FOR DISCUSSION. THE ONLY INFORMATION I HAVE ON IT IS IT IS FROM A COUNTRY IN THE MEDITERRANEAN AREA. IT MUST HAVE HAD SOME SPECIAL USE TO HAVE SUCH AN UNUSUAL FORM OF BLADE. Attached Images

9th April 2014, 03:09 PM	#12
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello, This a Genovese knife "con passacorda", referring to the thin blade tip. It was supposedly indeed used for rigging and knots. The slit in the blade, or sometimes in the tang when the handle unscrews from the blade, is known as the "cruna" and basically makes a larger threading needle. That's a wonderful book by the way with excellent information, but in Italian. I will look up the specific info when I get home tonight. Here is a page from "Dizionari Terminologici - Armi Bianche dal Mediebo all'Eta Moderna" (Florence, 1980) for additional reference. See F and G, terms, 10 and 26. Emanuel Attached Images Last edited by Emanuel; 9th April 2014 at 03:39 PM.

14th February 2012, 05:03 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,729	Is that a slot I see towards the blade tip? If so it could be some sort of sewing tool...maybe for sails? Stu

14th February 2012, 06:12 PM	#3
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,053	It looks very like the classic "Mediterranian Dirk" but with a stiletto point. Makes sense actualy, a knife edge for utility cutting and a stiletto point for combat. A real bespoke piece and very nice to have.

14th February 2012, 11:26 PM	#4
Stan S. Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Brooklyn, NY USA Posts: 227	An eating utensil? The point can be used as a skewer (instead of a fork) and the cutting ege is for cutting... Just a guess

15th February 2012, 09:49 AM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Definately looks European though Barry. You could try the Euro forum?

16th February 2012, 12:25 AM	#7
fspic Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 27	The fluting (or whatever) suggests this is Italian (or maybe French) as they are the main ones who heavily used that sort of decoration - it is also found in furniture. It doth have a Baroque-ish smack to it. A distant variant is the spiral columns of the Vatican altar. As for the application, if there is a hole in the end it would likely be used for pulling cord, but if not sails then maybe upholstery. If the blade is sharp or has a slightly chisel edge that may give a clue to use.

16th February 2012, 03:35 PM	#8
Indianajones Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 180	The handle looks like it is made of a cut section of twisted vine (tropical?) more than carved, is it? Is it wood at all? To me it certainly looks like a specialised tool from around the 1830's, perhaps Italian or Spanish as does the iron decoration indicate. It certainly belonged to a craftman specialised in a particular job, maybe on mainland or maybe on board of a ship (hence the tropical addition?). >>>just my humble thoughts on this item<<

9th April 2014, 02:07 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Looks like the skewer in a meat carving set.

9th April 2014, 02:20 PM	#11
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	so, what is it? (i can't read the illustrated page, ibrahim) (also can't read italian ) the perforated tip does lend itself to some sort of sailor's dagger also used for sail repair and/or fancy knotwork.

9th April 2014, 05:07 PM	#13
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	I got a reasonable translation by pressing the little flag top right on the website reference but anyway this is not only an excellent matelots weapon/ rigging tool but became famous as a dastardly dagger up the back alleyways in Genoa on dark nights...and the book goes on to describe its reputation and prohibition as an illegal blade..I cant think why... Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.