Yataghan: provenance?

ariel · 18th March 2006, 07:27 PM

Here is one that just ended
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
The blade is generic and the handle is rather cheap painted(?) wood and has small rounded and nonprotruding ears.
I am intrigued by the scabbard: doesn't it look N. African, kind of Moroccan to you? Also, Yataghans were carried stuck under the belt. This one has a baldric (?) and was obviously carried hanging on the side/hip.
If I am correct, can we say that this particular type of the handle is of a N.African variety? This would be similar to the big-eared black horn ones coming from the Balkans etc.

Yannis · 18th March 2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

I am intrigued by the scabbard: doesn't it look N. African, kind of Moroccan to you? Also, Yataghans were carried stuck under the belt. This one has a baldric (?) and was obviously carried hanging on the side/hip.

Scabbard has a lot of similarities with typical flyssa.

Tim Simmons · 18th March 2006, 08:44 PM

It does indeed. It does not always mean the wrong knife in the wrong scabbard. I think ariel brought to light, last year/this year, a saber with an eared handle that was either from the horn of Africa or the Arabian peninsula.

Emanuel · 18th March 2006, 09:23 PM

Hello,

In the article "Sabre Kabyles," Camille Lacoste-Dujardin talks about Ottoman yataghan blades being imported in Algeria and completely refitted by local craftsmen. There are even occasions of locally-forged yataghans by smiths who may have learned their craft in Turkey or other places within the empire.
Lacoste specified that the handles were far simpler than the classical Ottoman, merely hinting at the twin-earned originals. Perhaps this is such an example.
The scabbard has the same treatment as flyssa, so it's interesting to see how foreign models were completely adapted to local traditions/preferences.

Valjhun · 18th March 2006, 11:06 PM

I noticed it and I wanted to hear a comment about it on this forum, but I guess that all glory goes to Ariel now

. I vote for Maghrib also. The fact that the seller is from France can only justify that thesis, I suppose. Interesting piece, is the first time I see one like that.

ariel · 19th March 2006, 03:57 AM

Glad all of you agree. Perhaps, we have learned something useful in general terms from this example. Artzi got it, but I expect him being in Timonium next couple of days ( I am so very sorry I couldn't go, but I am on a special work assignment this month and could not leave town). I guess it would be extremely interesting to hear what he has to say about this piece.

18th March 2006, 07:27 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yataghan: provenance? Here is one that just ended http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1 The blade is generic and the handle is rather cheap painted(?) wood and has small rounded and nonprotruding ears. I am intrigued by the scabbard: doesn't it look N. African, kind of Moroccan to you? Also, Yataghans were carried stuck under the belt. This one has a baldric (?) and was obviously carried hanging on the side/hip. If I am correct, can we say that this particular type of the handle is of a N.African variety? This would be similar to the big-eared black horn ones coming from the Balkans etc.

18th March 2006, 11:06 PM	#5
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	I noticed it and I wanted to hear a comment about it on this forum, but I guess that all glory goes to Ariel now . I vote for Maghrib also. The fact that the seller is from France can only justify that thesis, I suppose. Interesting piece, is the first time I see one like that. Last edited by Valjhun; 18th March 2006 at 11:20 PM.

18th March 2006, 08:44 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	It does indeed. It does not always mean the wrong knife in the wrong scabbard. I think ariel brought to light, last year/this year, a saber with an eared handle that was either from the horn of Africa or the Arabian peninsula.

18th March 2006, 09:23 PM	#4
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello, In the article "Sabre Kabyles," Camille Lacoste-Dujardin talks about Ottoman yataghan blades being imported in Algeria and completely refitted by local craftsmen. There are even occasions of locally-forged yataghans by smiths who may have learned their craft in Turkey or other places within the empire. Lacoste specified that the handles were far simpler than the classical Ottoman, merely hinting at the twin-earned originals. Perhaps this is such an example. The scabbard has the same treatment as flyssa, so it's interesting to see how foreign models were completely adapted to local traditions/preferences.

19th March 2006, 03:57 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Glad all of you agree. Perhaps, we have learned something useful in general terms from this example. Artzi got it, but I expect him being in Timonium next couple of days ( I am so very sorry I couldn't go, but I am on a special work assignment this month and could not leave town). I guess it would be extremely interesting to hear what he has to say about this piece.