Ibrahiim al Balooshi

There are contradictory reports on the supposed advantages and disadvantages of the afghan jezail compared to the brown bess.

It may be remembered that the Jezail was a copy and largely of the brown bess and by almost accident it turned into something of a home made snipers rifle.

There are several reasons why, including the Jezails elongated barrel and its rifled twist as well as its deployment in groups of two and three shooters in the high mountain passes using plunging fire carefully aimed at massed targets struggling to pass below and where counter attack, easy on flatter ground, was impossible among vertical cliffs etc.

Here is another reason for their better marksmanship below... the bipod.

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rickystl

Hi Jim.

Congratulations. It looks like a nice - and genuine Jazail from the photos. My thoughts:
STOCK: The intricate brass piercing decoration along with the pearl is in a manner much better than a tourist example in my opinion.
BARREL: The long, damascus barrel with traces of gold inlay, heavy breech area, and rear sight arrangement are all typical of the genuine working guns. Even the design of the brass barrel bands are of a style commonly seen on these guns.
LOCK: From the one photo the lock appears to be a genuine EIC lock with the hammer and frizzen screws replaced with pins sometime during it's working life. (This would not be unusual as the Afghan locals seemed to avoid making threaded screws whenever possible. Probably due to a lack of hand dies to make threads. I've seen lock plate screw threads that looked more like early 17th Century versus early 19th Century. While others utilized the lock plate screws directly from the British EIC muskets.)
Close up photos of both the outside and inside of the lock would confirm a genuine EIC lock or a locally made copy. But at the moment, from the somewhat distant photo, it appears to be genuine.

The locally made copies of the EIC locks I've examined vary greatly in quality. Occasionally you will find a copy that functions almost as well as the British original. While others are made so crudely that the locks would likely require constant maintenance/repair. The spurious marks (prancing lion, heart, and date) on the locally made locks run the range of very close to very crude. These spurious marks were probably added by the gunsmith to give a perspective buyer an imaginary added value thinking the lock was of British origin. Likely the local tribesmen could not read/write their own language much less a foreign one. As mentioned, many of the locks were re-used from captured British muskets. But many of the genuine EIC locks were sold/traded to the locals either legitimately or not.
The barrels were made in both rifled and smoothbore variations. While the smoothbores would shoot as far and equal range as the rifled barrels, the ball would start to vere side to side after about 75 yards. So the rifled barrels would be much more accurate, especially at longer ranges. But the smoothbores would be faster to reload and easier to clean. So those were the trade offs. The barrels are typically long and front heavy. The likely anticipation of shooting the gun while resting on the rock cliffs or other type of rest. Some of these guns were even made with adjustable stands built into the forearm of the stock.

I'll post some photos of some of the Jazails and locks I have in my collection.
These Jazails certainly have a colorful history. Harding's books are likely the best reference source for EIC lock markings. But I've never exhibited the courage to cough up the astronomical price for a set - when available. LOL

Rick

kronckew

If you get a chance, watch the movie "Kesari", about the last stand of 21 Sikh warriors against the Pathans. There is a sniper that plagues them with a jezail, and ultimately gets his comeuppance from a brit .Martini-henry. (It's available on Amazon Prime, with english subtitles, included free for prime members) includes 12,000 heavily armed pathans, and lots of musketry. Mostly getting slaughtered. Score: pathans 21, Sikhs around 2-3,000.

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kahnjar1

Interesting pic of the time, though obviously posed. The shooters gun is not cocked and the guy below with the matchlock version does not seem too concerned with what is happening around him. A great pic though, and thanks for posting.
Stu

Jim McDougall

Ricky, I cannot possibly thank you enough for the wonderfully positive and detailed assessment of my jezail. As I have noted, this was purely serendipity, and actually I was visiting a very prominent and well known gun dealer in Albuquerque. While I ceased collecting years ago, I have always had a little bucket list, and I was looking for an authentic well used Winchester saddle ring carbine.
He had so many guns it was hard to describe, many had come in from estates and collection purchases, and there were countless items not yet cataloged or listed. He was tight on the price for the carbine I chose, and I saw this jezail among a literal pile of them brought back from Afghanistan. For some reason I liked this one and negotiated a package deal.......somehow not only did I get my saddle ring....but this jezail, which I have wanted since the wistful readings I described of some 50 years ago!

I would not dare disassemble it, but have optimistically held the same views you have, that it is likely far to elaborate for a tourist item. Still, that even the guns of tribesmen authentically used end up in the bazarres in Kabul, so this may be one. The touch hole, and other necessary features seem notably functional, and it is indeed smooth bore, .58 cal. according to the dealer.

It is pretty exciting to have luckily found a good example, never really expecting I would ever get one, and the great responses here from you and the guys as I try to learn more about these is great.
Thank you so much again.....and REALLY looking forward to your pics

kahnjar1

As promised the lock detail not yet posted of the two other jezails.
The one with MOP decoration similar to yours does not have the RAMPANT lion but has a lion standing on all four feet. The date, if in fact it is one, is in Hindi I think. No doubt someone here will be able to confirm or deny that.
The other (percussion) jezail has no EIC or any other marks, but a string of I.I.I.I.etc. Not sure what that signifies, or maybe it is just part of the decoration. The lock itself looks to me to be a civilian type rather than military.
Stu

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Kubur

Hi Stu
I can see 1272, 1856 and a Persian lion or a copy i don't know...

kahnjar1

Thanks Kubur.
Are the numerals Hindi? The particular lion is familiar to me but I could not place it. Certainly not EIC though.
Stu

Kubur

It's Farsi, Persian numbers (in fact Arabic), the persian calendar is a bit different
so +/-10 years...

Jim McDougall

Stu, thank you!!! These are excellent images, and I think what I like most about these guns is their inherently rugged charm, so appropriate for the tribal warriors of the Khyber and its environs.

The 'standing' lion is of course Persian, and while officially the Lion and Sun of the Pahlavi dynasty of late in Iran, it was of course prevalent in the Qajar dynasty preceding. In Afghanistan, as has been noted, the influences of Persia are profoundly present much as throughout India with the Mughals.
This is an amazing lock, and honestly the first I have seen with the Persian lion. With the previously noted presence of England in Persia and the use of the EIC markings on locks produced there, this is fascinating.

The 'date' on this is in characters I do not recognize, but clearly in imitation of EIC configuration, and it is tempting to consider the Persian Lion and Sun were deliberately placed in lieu of the EIC rampant lion as well.

The percussion lock example is also fascinating and unusual. It will be interesting to find what these 'I' characters added in such a grouping with periods mean. From the obsessive research I have been involved in the past weeks, it seems the percussion locks (of c. 1830s+) were not particularly favored by the tribesmen as obviously, the caps were hard to come by while flints and powder were not.

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Jim McDougall

In continuing the research on the lock on my jezail of the OP, I wanted to find more on the EIC rampant lion and date on the lock. I was greatly encouraged by Ricky's supportive observations on it likely being authentically original EIC.

While it has certain minor flaws, it does seem more consistent with such which might occur in work of the numerous contractors supplying materials to the EIC rather than the more crude and often misaligned elements of native Afghan examples.

Clearly it has been reworked, probably numerous times in its very long working life, as is common with these long circulating gun locks in these regions.
As has been noted, the use of pins instead or screws, and the working seems to have defaced the head of the lion as well as the position where the company inspection stamp was. The date 1811 seems one of notable production as I have found numerous notations noting it.

One thing I noticed is the hammer on my example, which seems consistent with the earlier Windus examples, while about 1813, the ring in the hammer appeared.
As the rampant lion superceded the familiar quartered heart mark in about 1808 (used until 1830s) it may presume the lock itself could be in accord with the 1811 date.

Photos:
1) an original EIC lock with rampant lion and date 1811
2) Another with rampant lion but date is not visible
3) One of the earlier EIC locks with quartered heart EIC initials/date
4) An EIC heart with curious 'flaunched' separation with initials
According to R.E. Brooker in "British Military Pistols" (1978) this design
was a 'storekeepers mark', however it seems unusual that it would be
seen on a gun lock. This design seems to have been more prevalent in
Bengal regions and on some coins, but I have yet to find notes on that
from research some years ago.

Most of this study was from in the mid 1990s when I was trying to discover if EIC markings such as on gun locks were ever placed on sword blades. According to communications with David Harding who was then compiling his master work, "Small Arms of the East India Company" (4 vol. 1997) they were not. However I do have a bayonet with EIC heart, so that was the exception.

The next photo is the lock on my jezail from OP for comparison,

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kahnjar1

Thanks very much.
Stu

kahnjar1

Hi Jim,
That's the one!! Thank you for posting . The sun??? behind the lion shows clearly on my lock, so at least we now know that it is a Persian lock, or at least a copy of one, and the date is shown in Farsi.
Quality of workmanship of the inside is poor IMHO so one assumes that this is a backyard made lock. I suppose it is possible that the lock plate itself could be original, with the working parts added in a backyard assembly. I guess we will never know for sure.......
Stu.

Jim McDougall

In researching EIC markings quite some time ago, I wondered why the '4' atop the quartered heart which seems to appeared on this bale mark sometime about 1770 according to some sources. The quartered heart with VEIC initials remained the company bale mark until 1808, when the rampant lion image replaced it.
Prior to the quartered heart, the mark used was a circle containing the initials G.C.E. (= Governor and Company of East India Merchants).

As noted earlier, the 'flaunched' heart with VEIC was presumed to be a storekeepers mark, and not used as widely as the other.

Returning to the '4', knowing that the EIC markings were intended as bale marks, thus marking company property and goods. One source suggested that such bale marks were also intended to protect property, and had certain amulet oriented imbuement. The '4' in astrological and magic/occult symbolism represented Jupiter , good fortune and protection.
I had noticed that the 4 appeared in numerous other merchants marks, as well as those used by printers and tailors etc.

To me this was far from the suggestions that the 4 was simply an altered cross and orb to avoid offending Muslim trade contacts. When I suggested the possible magical or protective properties as a possible explanation for the 4 atop the heart, it was not exactly well received, however seemed to me still an option.

I add this material here mostly to illustrate the variations of markings which might occur on jezail locks.

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rickystl

Hello again. This Tread is producing some very interesting reading.

Here is my favorite Jazail from my collection. It is only moderately decorated. I had this one restored to firing condition, which I guess is why it is my favorite. LOL This one has a genuine EIC lock dated 1805 with the tail of the lockplate marked: BARNETT, who was a prolific English gun/lock maker during this period. Not only did he make locks/guns for the military, many of his locks were used on trade guns (less the EIC markings) exported to North America.
Notice the internal parts of the lock are up to European snuff. The lock operates strong and reliable.
The barrel was originally rifled, and now has a new rifled liner. But this is a good typical example of a Jazail with a lighter than normal barrel weight that is easy to shoulder. Usually the barrels are extra front-heavy as previously mentioned. Apparently, the original owner wanted something a bit more portable and easy to carry.

I'll post some others with different lock variations as discussed.

Rick

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kronckew

Cool, a lot better to my western eyes w/o the garish decor.

Jim McDougall

Indeed this thread has brought in some fascinating reading, and again, Im learning a lot through you and the guys here. I have been hard at reading, finding old notes and engulfed in the examples and details you guys are adding.

Your example you have shown here is outstanding, and reflects the 'rugged frontier charm' I have noted with the guns of these Khyber tribes as a no-nonsense fighting weapon. It is good you have restored it to its inherent usable character, and clearly well cared for it.

I know I have seen the BARNETT name a good number of times as a well known maker of these locks for these India pattern muskets. While he and Wilson appear among the most prolific, there are others listed and I wanted to add them with what I found in yesterdays reading:
Blair; Sutherland; Brander; Egg; Goff; Henshaw; Ketland; Potts; Rea; Tow and Twigg.

Another note I found was that the year by the EIC heart or other (such as Tower or BO =board of ordnance) reflected a contract year rather than the year of manufacture. Possibly that explains the same year appearing on so many locks. Apparently 1779 and 1793 were two notable years.

It seems in 1797 the short land pattern production was ceased for that of the cheaper India pattern.

One thing I was thinking of with these jezails, and these authentic locks by these outstanding British gunsmith names. It seems in most cases, these guns are rather dismissed by the broader sector of gun collectors, and it is noted they move rather slowly and do not command high prices. It was that kind of feel I had when I acquired my example, that among collectors these would appeal only to a relatively small sector.

However, these well named locks WOULD be in high demand, for uh, 'innovative' sellers 'improving' existing British gun components (not that this ever happens ). I have seen the named lock alone of these flintlocks go for six hundred or more dollars.
I hope that these amazing frontier guns are safely absorbed by those of us fascinated by their history are kept intact as found in situ from the Afghan regions. Obviously these locks were reused and refurbished many times in their tribal surroundings, but keeping them in their final incarnation I would consider most important.

Just some added notes and thinking as the discussion continues, and again, I thank you all so much!!!

Jim McDougall

LOL! OK, point taken...….I think of Patton when somebody called the grips on his paired pistols pearl...…...instead of the actual ivory!!!
You're right on that though, rugged frontier charm is the real deal, but despite the decoration on mine, its character and the lock and very heft called to me.
From what I have read, these warriors were often enthralled by elaborate and flamboyant decoration in their estimation suggesting power etc.

kahnjar1

Maybe this is not out of place (courtesay Wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=e...iw=1571&bih=786
Stu

Jim McDougall

There really are conflicting views on these, and it is likely that being assembled by so many local makers there was probably a wide range of quality. I wonder if the jezail design was around in these Afghan regions much before the advent of the supplies of British gun locks in the mid 18th c.
I also wonder if other gun locks, or even if there were Afghan locks made without copying British ones.
I know there were matchlock jezails of course, so presumably these were copied from Indian toradors or other examples?

The effectiveness of these snipers high in cliffs and escarpments in these rugged regions were ideally situated for sniping, and as noted, the use of the bipod was key. I always think of the classic movie "Gunga Din" and these snipers unleashing their fire on the British columns.

Jim McDougall

Not even Stu!!! Perfect links with great history and overview of the EIC, and the other link very comprehensive with many, many views of these gun locks.
The Wiki history on EIC notes the ' mystical sign of four' I was describing in the heart marking of EIC, with those type symbolisms instead of the disguised cross notion.
Thanks very much.

kahnjar1

.....Don't forget that jezails are also found as matchlocks, so yes it is likely that they existed before the availability of British and no doubt other locks.
Stu

Kubur

I agree for the Sindhi matchlocks.

But I never saw any Pashtun matchlocks...
It doesnt mean that they don't exist, but it's very strange that none of them appeared in Museums or on the market...

i found one here but most likely from the Sindh
plus more examples from another - lucky - forum member...

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rickystl

Hello All.

The interest in these guns (and Oriental guns in general) for antique gun collectors is very much a minority within a minority if you will. LOL There is more interest in the blades and armor among Ethno collectors. I can remember back when dealers would only take these guns in on a consignment basis. The lack of collector interest is the likely reason these guns have historically never brought the prices of their European counterparts. There are always exceptions of course (such as Greek origin guns). However, I have noticed in just the last 3/4 years that the auction pricing for many of these guns has trended upward.

I've only inspected one Jazail of obvious Afghan origin that was matchlock. The others were all of Sindh origin. Although we know they existed. In fact, one of the interesting features of my Jazail shooter above is that the barrel started life as a matchlock and was later restocked as a flintlock. I kept photos of the evidence.

As mentioned, there are more remaining Jazail specimens in flintlock than percussion. This was likely due to the cost and availability of percussion caps. As a curious side note, virtually every gun of Sindh origin I've seen is either matchlock or percussion. There are a couple of flintlock variations in books/museums, but they would be considered quite rare. Almost as if the Sindh skipped the flintlock period and went from matchlock to percussion (similar to the Japanese).

Here is another Jazail from my collection. From a collectors view, this would be a favorite. The entire gun is in original, unmolested condition. The entire circumference of the butt stock is heavily decorated with pearl inlays. There is even an old museum tag this is mis-identified. LOL The barrel is smooth bore. The lock is a genuine EIC lock dated 1811. Since these first photos, I've cleaned the lock but still have to replace 3 missing pearl inlays. The barrel one this one is front heavy as most. Even most of the original black tar protection is present. This one was lucky find.

Rick

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rickystl

AND PICS OF THE LOCK......

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Jim McDougall

It seems I have read that matchlock ignition was used in Afghan regions on jezails for quite some time, so in retracing through Egerton (1880),on pp.140,141 I found:

On Waziris, Afridis and Mahsuds, "...their matchlocks were, until the introduction of the rifled weapons, much superior to our old 'Brown Bess' and carried up to 800 yards with accuracy".

On the Durrani's, cited by Egerton , "Moorcrofts Travels" (1824) notes that they carried matchlocks, with the 'limak' or crooked stock or flintlocks".

It would seem that the 'crooked stock' perhaps may refer to the uniquely shaped 'jezail' (though these references do not use that term) and mentions flintlock, perhaps early entries of the EIC locks.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi

This is indeed a great thread!

Pease see the write up to the artwork below at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jezai...ghanistan.jp g also included in a previous post at #25. Note in this painting the almost invisible two bipods shown on the right hand side of the artwork. These bipods were needed to offset and support the front heavy, long barrels of the jezail but not on all. Often these weapons were made with captured brown bess locks or converted to flintlock from matchlock later.

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Jim McDougall

In looking into the gun locks used on these I notice that while the earlier ones with the quartered heart prevail (until use of the rampant lion in 1808) there are a good number of examples using a heart with heraldic 'flaunched' design. Both use the same configuration of the initials VEIC.

I thought I had seen this unusual design (semi circles on either side) on an EIC coin at some point and thought perhaps that might yield a clue as to why these are different. It seems that Brooker ("British Military Pistols") thought these were storekeepers marks.
In looking for the coin, I finally found the example, which was a pice (=cent) from Penang, Malay peninsula which became British colony in 1786. It was governed by the Bengal Presidency where these copper coins were minted in Calcutta.

I noticed further that makers Leigh and Barnett were prevalent makers of gun locks for EIC with 1806 issues seen with these 'flaunched' hearts. Mortimer examples (producing in 1790s) also have these hearts.

I am wondering if these locks using this type heart may have been produced for the Bengal Presidency of the EIC? It has not seemed that such specifics would have been likely, unless these makers were attending to certain requirements to a specific regional need of an EIC department.

The fact that the Bengal presidency seemed to favor this design of the EIC chop mark as indicated by these coins from Penang, while it seems in all other areas the standard quartered heart prevailed begs the question, why?

While this may seem an irrelevant query, it seems perhaps it might be pertinent to regional use of certain locks.

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Victrix

What about the barrels? Where did they come from? I understand they were mainly Ottoman (Turkey?) produced? Arguably the barrels are the most important because they have to be very strong and absolutely straight, with twist rifling inside in some cases. Can’t be easy to produce something like that?