Swedish m/1791 hussar sabre

Victrix · 11th February 2024, 09:18 AM

That’s a very beautiful sword you have there, Jim. Yes it’s a conundrum about these notches. You are the person who first alerted my attention to them. When I saw this sword up for sale I could not resist obtaining an example with this curious notch. A noteworthy detail is that the point of the sabre has been filed downwards towards the sharp edge into a spear point before the notches were added. The first notch is just a hint which makes me wonder if as you say they have more symbolical than practical use. The filing down of the point to a spearpoint seems like an adaption to make the sword better suited for thrust. Spontaneously I thought it makes it good for catching fish but surely no soldier would use his sword for such mundane use.

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Jim McDougall · 11th February 2024, 07:37 PM

Victrix, much in kind as to your note that I brought 'the mystery of the blade notch' your attention......here you have notably supported my theory, which I have been trying to prove since my research on this topic began three decades ago. It began in 1994, as I was browsing through Wagner (1967, Prague) and noted these curious notched blades faithfully depicted. These were all on Austrian examples (as often noted mostly cavalry pallasches) but on two sabers of the five examples (as I recall).

Wanting to confirm these were not 'artistic license'., I wrote to the museums holding the examples Wagner drew from to confirm physically that the notches indeed existed. By 1996 (no computer web/online in those days), I had photos of the noted swords, which indeed had the notches. The museum officials mostly subscribed to Wagners theory of 'worsening' the wound.

I know now that did not mean in thrusting, with the the possible/probable restriction of withdrawing the now embedded blade...but actually in the passage you brilliantly highlighted in Wagners text......to provide a barb in the back edge of the blade for a 'back cut' in close quarters melee, where there was no space to properly swing the sword with sufficient impetus, but a tight slash would impair and distract the opponent momentarily to allow for realignment.

By this same token, a most salient entry by RYSAYS (1/Jan/2024) in the 2017 thread (ongoing) has his take on the notch supporting the 'wound' theory, and in this case to the aspects of the duel with sabers.

In the 1836 "Essai sur de duel" by Louis Alfred le Blanc de Chatauvillad, it is noted in the regulations and protocols of dueling, it is forbidden to 'CHIP' the blade of an epee to cause illegitimate cuts in disputes settled by blood.
While the saber is not specifically noted, it may be well presumed that officers of hussars did engage in dueling with sabers ("The Duelists" , 1978, film from the actual accounts of such events in hussars of the French cavalry during Napoleonic period....from the story by Joseph Conrad).

Honor was typically indeed satisfied by the drawing of blood, and to notch a saber blade in this manner would profoundly intimate that the hussar who proudly bore this feature on his blade was indeed, the swaggering duelist known among the colorful reputation of hussars. It would seem that this notion was not something well known of course, and seems to have been around for many years as suggested by the early examples to the War of Spanish Succession (1701).

There are many nuances of unusual practices and superstitious protocols which exist throughout the history of European military spheres, and these understandably are not typically found by the casual student of such history.
There is a scholarly reticence to include such subjective matter in published material on military history. in fact specifics to swords themselves are typically restricted to whether they were curved, straight but little else if mentioned at all.

While this practice of 'notching' seems to have indeed diffused throughout Europe likely along with the 'hussar phenomenon' (as indicated by its incidental occurrence in these cavalry units of other countries) it seems to have phased out. I would guess that its inception was in the Austro-Hungarian sphere with the remarkable attention to swordsmanship which prevailed there.

Whether it was as initially as surmised a feature to incur distracting wounds in close quarters combat, or to ensure a non fatal blooded cut in a duel, the purpose of the 'notch' in my opinion is in this category.

WONDERFUL SABER VICTRIX! and my thanks for posting it to bring this decades old mystery to at least a reasonably plausible solution.

Victrix · 11th February 2024, 08:09 PM

Thank you, Jim. I’m pleased with the sabre and the notch adds an interesting collectable detail. You may well be right about the notch used mainly for duelling purposes. In Germanic lands especially there are well known customs at fraternities devoted to duelling and scars were proudly displayed. The notches could perhaps be used to draw blood without causing fatal injuries. Contemporary historic materials mention appalling wounds caused by sabres in times of war.

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Jim McDougall · 11th February 2024, 10:13 PM

I think the reason these notches are relatively rare is that this was likely a limited affectation, which is again why it is never noted in accounts of hussar 'lore', It may be that the presumption of the 'gorier' purpose became broadly known, again in popular lore of the times. The Pandours had a notorious reputation for their depredations much in the same manner as dragoon regiments often had similar reputation. There was a colloquial expression of being 'dragooned' if memory serves.

Perhaps, much in the way of the maligned saw tooth Schmidt-Rubin bayonet of WWI, which was seen to be a horrendous weapon to cause heinous wounding, so that allied forces finding one with a German soldier led to his summary execution.....these notched points were ground away. In reality these toothed bayonets were designed for utility use in assembling emplacements etc.....but the German soldiers hastily ground off the teeth on the blades to avoid the wrath of the allies if captured.

As noted the 'symbolic' presence of these notched blades toward dueling, were likely applied in the manner described, to draw blood and satisfy resolution to a matter of infringed honor without fatality. As you mention, the German 'duels' using the lightweight schlager saber are fought with the sole purpose of acquiring a facial scar. This was seen as a mark of honor in accord with the flamboyant age of the hussar.

This was known as the 'mensur' and one fencing master, very well known, who I communicated with on occasion, had fought at least three of these, which are apparently not fought that much these days as this was featured in the book, "By the Sword" (Cohen).

Contrary to popular belief, duels were seldom fought to the death, and as these were pre arranged, the element of rage and adrenalin typically only became a factor if one combatant did something out of bounds etc.
Once blood was drawn,even a scratch, the match was typically ended.

11th February 2024, 09:18 AM	#1
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 682	That’s a very beautiful sword you have there, Jim. Yes it’s a conundrum about these notches. You are the person who first alerted my attention to them. When I saw this sword up for sale I could not resist obtaining an example with this curious notch. A noteworthy detail is that the point of the sabre has been filed downwards towards the sharp edge into a spear point before the notches were added. The first notch is just a hint which makes me wonder if as you say they have more symbolical than practical use. The filing down of the point to a spearpoint seems like an adaption to make the sword better suited for thrust. Spontaneously I thought it makes it good for catching fish but surely no soldier would use his sword for such mundane use. - Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 11th February 2024 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Members are recommended to reduce the size of each quotation to the part of the texts they wish to emphasize !

11th February 2024, 08:09 PM	#3
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 682	Thank you, Jim. I’m pleased with the sabre and the notch adds an interesting collectable detail. You may well be right about the notch used mainly for duelling purposes. In Germanic lands especially there are well known customs at fraternities devoted to duelling and scars were proudly displayed. The notches could perhaps be used to draw blood without causing fatal injuries. Contemporary historic materials mention appalling wounds caused by sabres in times of war. - Last edited by fernando; 13th March 2024 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Please do not quote entire previous posts, just relevant small sections when necessary.

11th February 2024, 07:37 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	Victrix, much in kind as to your note that I brought 'the mystery of the blade notch' your attention......here you have notably supported my theory, which I have been trying to prove since my research on this topic began three decades ago. It began in 1994, as I was browsing through Wagner (1967, Prague) and noted these curious notched blades faithfully depicted. These were all on Austrian examples (as often noted mostly cavalry pallasches) but on two sabers of the five examples (as I recall). Wanting to confirm these were not 'artistic license'., I wrote to the museums holding the examples Wagner drew from to confirm physically that the notches indeed existed. By 1996 (no computer web/online in those days), I had photos of the noted swords, which indeed had the notches. The museum officials mostly subscribed to Wagners theory of 'worsening' the wound. I know now that did not mean in thrusting, with the the possible/probable restriction of withdrawing the now embedded blade...but actually in the passage you brilliantly highlighted in Wagners text......to provide a barb in the back edge of the blade for a 'back cut' in close quarters melee, where there was no space to properly swing the sword with sufficient impetus, but a tight slash would impair and distract the opponent momentarily to allow for realignment. By this same token, a most salient entry by RYSAYS (1/Jan/2024) in the 2017 thread (ongoing) has his take on the notch supporting the 'wound' theory, and in this case to the aspects of the duel with sabers. In the 1836 "Essai sur de duel" by Louis Alfred le Blanc de Chatauvillad, it is noted in the regulations and protocols of dueling, it is forbidden to 'CHIP' the blade of an epee to cause illegitimate cuts in disputes settled by blood. While the saber is not specifically noted, it may be well presumed that officers of hussars did engage in dueling with sabers ("The Duelists" , 1978, film from the actual accounts of such events in hussars of the French cavalry during Napoleonic period....from the story by Joseph Conrad). Honor was typically indeed satisfied by the drawing of blood, and to notch a saber blade in this manner would profoundly intimate that the hussar who proudly bore this feature on his blade was indeed, the swaggering duelist known among the colorful reputation of hussars. It would seem that this notion was not something well known of course, and seems to have been around for many years as suggested by the early examples to the War of Spanish Succession (1701). There are many nuances of unusual practices and superstitious protocols which exist throughout the history of European military spheres, and these understandably are not typically found by the casual student of such history. There is a scholarly reticence to include such subjective matter in published material on military history. in fact specifics to swords themselves are typically restricted to whether they were curved, straight but little else if mentioned at all. While this practice of 'notching' seems to have indeed diffused throughout Europe likely along with the 'hussar phenomenon' (as indicated by its incidental occurrence in these cavalry units of other countries) it seems to have phased out. I would guess that its inception was in the Austro-Hungarian sphere with the remarkable attention to swordsmanship which prevailed there. Whether it was as initially as surmised a feature to incur distracting wounds in close quarters combat, or to ensure a non fatal blooded cut in a duel, the purpose of the 'notch' in my opinion is in this category. WONDERFUL SABER VICTRIX! and my thanks for posting it to bring this decades old mystery to at least a reasonably plausible solution.

11th February 2024, 10:13 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	I think the reason these notches are relatively rare is that this was likely a limited affectation, which is again why it is never noted in accounts of hussar 'lore', It may be that the presumption of the 'gorier' purpose became broadly known, again in popular lore of the times. The Pandours had a notorious reputation for their depredations much in the same manner as dragoon regiments often had similar reputation. There was a colloquial expression of being 'dragooned' if memory serves. Perhaps, much in the way of the maligned saw tooth Schmidt-Rubin bayonet of WWI, which was seen to be a horrendous weapon to cause heinous wounding, so that allied forces finding one with a German soldier led to his summary execution.....these notched points were ground away. In reality these toothed bayonets were designed for utility use in assembling emplacements etc.....but the German soldiers hastily ground off the teeth on the blades to avoid the wrath of the allies if captured. As noted the 'symbolic' presence of these notched blades toward dueling, were likely applied in the manner described, to draw blood and satisfy resolution to a matter of infringed honor without fatality. As you mention, the German 'duels' using the lightweight schlager saber are fought with the sole purpose of acquiring a facial scar. This was seen as a mark of honor in accord with the flamboyant age of the hussar. This was known as the 'mensur' and one fencing master, very well known, who I communicated with on occasion, had fought at least three of these, which are apparently not fought that much these days as this was featured in the book, "By the Sword" (Cohen). Contrary to popular belief, duels were seldom fought to the death, and as these were pre arranged, the element of rage and adrenalin typically only became a factor if one combatant did something out of bounds etc. Once blood was drawn,even a scratch, the match was typically ended.