How old is the Kora, and from where does it origin?

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd May 2009, 02:33 PM

I am reading in a booklet, ’A Catalogue of Arms and Armour in The State Museum, Hyderabad, A.P., 1975’, and here the author M. L. Nigam writes.

“In the eastern parts of Deccan, some new weapons seem to have been introduced to suit to the regional needs of the people. The ‘Kora’, which could produce deadly blows with its forward curved and broad tipped blade, appears, for the first time, in one of the sculptural panels carved in the second gate of the Mukhalingesvara temple at Mukhalinga,, the capital seat of the Eastern Ganga monarchs. The temple is datable to the second half of the eighth century AD. It may, therefore, be presumed that ‘Kora’, the favourite weapon of the Gurkhas, had come in vogue by the middle of eight century AD”.

If the Kora, in the second half of the eight century was fully developed, it suggests to me, that it, as a type, must be quite a bit older, but from where did it come - any suggestions?

Jim McDougall · 2nd May 2009, 05:55 PM

Hi Jens,
Excellent reference from this catalogue, and the subject of this weapon, the kora, and its origins will likely remain a subject of considerable debate indefinitely. This reference reinforces the importance of iconographic sources for study on the development of weapons, as architectural carvings and artwork are static, and can be soundly established with the dating of the structure itself as a rule. Certainly this must be qualified with the fact that many temples and such structures were works in progress over periods of time, but at least a reasonable benchmark can be established.

It would seem that the kora, as a weapon, represents more of a concept than specific form, thus its development becomes a matter of perception in many ways rather than distinctly being observed in chronological and geographic lineage, as much as we would like to accomplish that very thing.

As noted, the basic style of the kora is observed in the artwork at the Mukhalingesvara Temple which dates to middle 8th c. AD, and as you have noted, the form seems to have been fully developed by this time.
The basis for the form itself seems to have come from the ancient Greek kopis, which is essentially an edged weapon with forward curved blade for powerful downward stroke, and its origins believed to derive from the even earlier form known as the Egyptian khopesh.

This basic concept has often been assumed to associate the kora, kukri to the Greek kopis via the highly speculated and debated movements of Alexander in these northern regions in the 4th c. BC.

The Greek kopis itself is believed to have likely been derived from a bill hook like implement used in slaughter of animals and cutting meat, much the same as this type implement is used in agriculture related utility with the Nepalese tribes, as well as thier ceremonial use in sacrificial ritual, with the kora.

The heavier weight by widening the end, adds to the force of the downward cut of the concave edge, thus adding dramatically to the effect of this form of implement either as tool or weapon. With that being the case, it is not inconceivable that the concept might have developed independantly, while the subject of the kora in its distinct form is I think more the point of discussion here.

We know that the kora, as such, is widely present not only in Nepal, but congruent regions of Bengal and Orissa. The prevalence of these in Bengal as early as the 17th century is established by provenanced examples in the Royal Danish Kunstkammer and recorded as East India sabres c.1674. It is noted by Elgood in "Hindu Arms and Ritual" that most extant examples of the kora seem to be of 18th-19th c.

The travel and adventure writer Fanny Parkes ("Wanderings of a Pilgrim", London, 1845, Vol. II p.243) refers to the kora as a 'bughalee', as noted in Elgood's glossary. While it may be presumed that as the wife of an EIC official and simply romantically observing esoterica, it is worthy of note that she was apparantly quite familiar with weaponry, as one reference shows;
"...I have a pencil instead of a gun and it affords me satisfaction equal if not greater than the sportsman derives from his Manton". (Vol. II p.191).

Manton= an famous British arms firm in Calcutta who produced shotguns and other weapons.

While some travel writers simply offer vague descriptions of weapons, i.e. curved sword, shotgun etc. she is clearly specific, suggesting considerable veracity in her use of the term bughalee used for the 'kora'.

The forward curved sword type was also well known on the Iberian peninsula as the falcata, and again, the associations between these, the kopis, the machaira and the khopesh are all ancient forms of this concept (though the blade curvature of the machaira deviates). To effectively link all of them or any of them directly to the kora or kukri must remain speculative, but the determination of the kora in form to the 8th century by this evidence seems well placed.

As always, I look foward to the views of others, and this is what I think from what I have understood of previous research and discussions.

All the best,
Jim

Rick · 2nd May 2009, 06:32 PM

I'd suggest that this form developed in many places due to the simple ergonomic function of such a shape for Early Man .

Gonzalo G · 5th May 2009, 06:39 AM

Interesting thread! I don´t have this material actually referenced, does anyone have pictures of this kora represented in the Mukhalingesvara temple at Mukhalinga? Could it be that the name designates different weapons, as Jim seems to imply? Can we compare the koras mentioned by this authors with the ones produced in Nepal? I still cannot have a picture of the down curved blades from Ajanta!

I have seem some other pictures from antique indian iconography, but the down curved blades does not seem remotely as khukris or koras (and for the same purpose, less as machairas, kopis, falcatas, falx and so on), and I don´t know how those weapons were named. At least, do we have a detailed description of this koras as to be sure about the whole geometry of the blade? Is it relevant tha fact mentioned before by Sirupate, in the sense that the word "kora" is not the one used in Nepal?

Without better information and some images, all this must be taken very cautiuosly!

Regards
Gonzalo

Jens Nordlunde · 5th May 2009, 03:17 PM

Jim, Gonzalo,

Thank you for your answers. Unfortunately I don’t have a picture of the stone piece from the 8th century, I only have what the author has written. After I started this thread, I have been told about a stone relief showing a man holding a kora/kora like sword, and this stone relief was dated to the 6th century.

If one wants to study the very old weapons, the safest way to do so, is to study the stone reliefs, and there can be far between the reliefs’s where you see any weapons, but it is the safest way to learn about the subject. Old palm books can be interesting, but they seldom show a drawing of the weapons, and the names used, can often be used for several types of weapons.

sirupate · 9th May 2009, 03:53 PM

From the Nepali perspective, there seems to be the thought (in Nepal) that it originated in India, and made its way into Nepal in the early 14th century, and it is classified as a Hindu sacrificial blade and weapon.
It is intersting that the Khunda is not commonly found in the Villages of Nepal.

ariel · 9th May 2009, 04:01 PM

What about the Tibetan Kora?
Tibetans stem from the Mongoloid culture; did they also get their Kora from Hinduist India?

sirupate · 9th May 2009, 04:36 PM

Hello Ariel,

Are you referring to Sacrificial khunda? I must confess to never having come across Kora/Khunda from Tibet, only small swords and daggers, but Tibet is not my forte. It would seem odd to have a Hindu weapon/sacrificial blade in use, in a Buddist country?

Tibetans are not just of Mongol origin btw.

Gonzalo G · 10th May 2009, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirupate

From the Nepali perspective, there seems to be the thought (in Nepal) that it originated in India, and made its way into Nepal in the early 14th century, and it is classified as a Hindu sacrificial blade and weapon.
It is intersting that the Khunda is not commonly found in the Villages of Nepal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirupate

The Khunda according to the Nepalese historians I have been talking to is not the favourite weapon of the Gorkhas, this appears to be a myth born from early British writers who never even went to Nepal.

All this seems esoteric without concrete references everybody can check. The fact is that there are many very old indian khukris, but I have not found a trace of very old indian koras. And there is a plenty nepali koras with a definitive nepali handle. What Ariel says is very relevant. I believe (and I can be wrong), that those weapons could have a distinct origin from a tibetan group settled in Nepal.

Also, the kora is a weapon seem to be used in old times by the superior warrior castes, and not likely a villager tool. But the khukri is both things. I think that the kora was a relevant weapon before the introduction of fireweapons in Nepal, but not after. The kora seems not to be a practical weapon to carry with a musket or rifle; I don´t have a very precise information about, and if I am wrong please correct me, but I have the impression that the kora was carried without sheat. And their price must be too high for the common soldier, which can instead carry the khukri from home. This is not a simple matter of personal preferences, I believe.
Regards

Gonzalo

Jens Nordlunde · 9th May 2009, 04:43 PM

Sirupate, Ariel,

“In the eastern parts of Deccan, some new weapons seem to have been introduced to suit to the regional needs of the people. The ‘Kora’, which could produce deadly blows with its forward curved and broad tipped blade, appears, for the first time, in one of the sculptural panels carved in the second gate of the Mukhalingesvara temple at Mukhalinga,, the capital seat of the Eastern Ganga monarchs. The temple is datable to the second half of the eighth century AD. It may, therefore, be presumed that ‘Kora’, the favourite weapon of the Gurkhas, had come in vogue by the middle of eight century AD”.

I really don’t know what the author means by the word ‘introduced’, but to me the word means that the kora was not ‘invented’ in eastern Deccan or Bengal, but must have come from somewhere else – but from where? Maybe I misunderstand the author, and the kora really was ‘invented’ in eastern Deccan or Bengal, but if so,

it is strange that they are seen on stone sculptures in this area, but as far as I know, not in the area between there and Nepal. How could they ‘jump’ from one place to another without leaving any traces?

Well Ariel, I don’t know, and I can’t say, that I have ever seen a Tibetan kora. Do you have a picture you can show?

sirupate · 9th May 2009, 05:13 PM

Hello Jens,

Quote:

The ‘Kora’, which could produce deadly blows with its forward curved and broad tipped blade, appears, for the first time, in one of the sculptural panels carved in the second gate of the Mukhalingesvara temple at Mukhalinga,, the capital seat of the Eastern Ganga monarchs

Has anyone confirmed that they are kora/khunda? or is it just M. L. Nigam's interpretation of what the image might be?

The Khunda according to the Nepalese historians I have been talking to is not the favourite weapon of the Gorkhas, this appears to be a myth born from early British writers who never even went to Nepal.

spiral · 14th May 2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirupate

The khuda is not particularly prevalent in Nepal, but I agree it comes from the south, south of Nepal IMHO

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirupate

The Khunda according to the Nepalese historians I have been talking to is not the favourite weapon of the Gorkhas, this appears to be a myth born from early British writers who never even went to Nepal.

Actualy according to the works of the early British writer Colonel Kikpatrik {who of course went on a mission to Nepal in 1793.}
The khora {or hatchet sword.} was the usual weapon of the numerous irregular militia forces under the Omrahs in the rural districts of Nepal .

He points out that everyone there has kukri as a all round tool & that the militia army also have many matchlocks,& bows as well as there khora.

Its probably Col.Kirkatrik who introduced the spellings khora & Khookeri to the west when his work was published in 1811.{{By William Miller of London,} He also pointed out that at that time there were 8 or 9 main languages in Nepal which may explain some people beliving khuda or Khunda to be correct at Khora or Khora incorrect.

Personaly I would say as with the 15 or so spellings of khukri there all correct.

Nepal is full of rusty old kora still, most falling apart with age. The khora as a Hindu weapon will obviously carry religios symbols & meanings all Hindu weapons do{including the kukri.}

The true origin of the kora still remains to be found, the Himalayas does seem likely to me though,but of course further evidence may improve ones learning.

Hope that helps a little towards finding about a few more definitive facts about these great swords of the Himalayas & where misunderstandings about British & Nepali history & translations seem to have occurred.

Spiral

Gonzalo G · 17th May 2009, 08:08 AM

Sorry for my posts out of phase. Sometimes I answer too quick, as I have but a few minutes on internet once or twice a week and I have not time to think better, and sometimes I bring the subject to home to answer, although delayed, to other posts. Now, about the nature of the gorkha group, I must insist in the fact that they were self-proclaimed descendants of a rajput clan. But the documental sources show otherwise. The photos, even the older ones from the 19th Century, show what it seems a more mongolic than indian presence among the gorkha warriors (when I writte ´mongolic, I mean the historical racial classification called mongolic or mongoloid which designates the type of several peoples sharing common features, as opposed to caucasian, negro or negroid, and so on, and NOT to the mongols) . Everybody can check the available documental sources to verify it. It is the same situation with the gurkha enlisted in the British Army. Who are those gurkha and from which ethnic group they came in the past? Are they gorkha warriors? Then, why many (maybe most of them) are mongolic? On other side, I have not yet seen a study about the ethic origins of the gorkha. Everybody repeats that the gorkha are descendants from rajputs, based on what they say, and somebody also mentions early brahmans, although the brahmans are not an ethnic group but a caste present in all India. And it is added that they are mainly from mongolic descent, as it was not a contradiction in terms with the above statement, because as far as I understand, rajputs are not mongolic, isn´t it?

Confronted with this information, it can be made temporarily the hypothesis, or at least, the conjecture, that the gorkha were not really an ethnic group from India, though some of its members most probably are. Among them, some or many of the members of the top elite group on the direction of the gorkha State in the time of the conquest of the Katmandu Valley. But as I said previously, for reasons of prestige all the gorkha self covered with this legend about their collective origins, though this is contradicted by the massive presence of individuals of mongolic descent, judging by the available documental sources.

On the other side, I saved the page from the other thread, linked above:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kora+tibet

(Jens, why you didn´t mention THAT picture from B.I. of the indian sculpture?). That thread is very interesting, as it has the same subject of this one. For one side, the possible origins of the kora are mentioned. The pictures of the weapons nailed in the Bag Bharirav temple in Kirtipur (post No. 20 in that thread) makes me think. If this are weapons sized by the gorkha from their enemies of the Katmandu Valley, I see proportionally many koras there. If the koras were not used but rarely, why so many (again proportionally) of them? They are mainly seized koras, and not other kind of weapons. And if the koras were exclusive from the gorkha and the khukri a very extended weapon in all Nepal since then, why the gorkha seized koras from the people of the Katmandu Valley, and why only one of what it seems a kora handled khukri appear in this photos? Of course, there is the possibility that the photos maybe does not show all the weapons present on the temple, and they are selectively showed in this photos. Maby the persons who traveled to Nepal can explain.

I can reinforce my reasons to explain the possible absence of the kora in latter times, and the undeniable bigger proportion of khukris with this simple example: in other times, in México, there were used swords and sabers by many people. And also machetes, in bigger numbers, as the machete was a working people, and besides alwayas has been a cheaper tool-weapon and in México the poor people always has been the much bigger part of the population. Today, you can’t find swords and sabers in the towns of the country. Not even in private hands. They are not made or purchased anymore, and the survivors were sold much time ago to collectors. Mainly foreign collectors. In other times, we had mexican, spanish, french, german and USA swords and sabers by tons. But not anymore. Instead, you can find at least one machete in every house on the country, or in most of them. We can declare the machete a national tool-weapon, Most of the actual mexicans never saw a physical saber, but in pictures, even when we had a revolution less than one hundred years ago, and plenty of sabers were circulating in all the country. If a european comes to Mexico, he could think that only few swords and sabers existed here, and that mexicans fought only with machetes all his wars.

Simon, what gives a person good grounds and evidence for a statement about an antique weapon, is not the fact that he has traveled to the place in which those weapons were used, unless he also travels in time. Certainly he can pick up a lot of information looking at this weapons, and he can hear many testimonies, but that has limitations. MATERIAL evidence is needed. You need archaelogical proof, or at least probable cause, based on some facts and a good logical reasons. I have traveled, almost lived, part of my life in the USA. I have made some research about the origin of the Bowie knife, which is still made in this days. It is relatively a very recent model of knife, and it appeared in a society with some level of education. But nobody knows for sure the original design of this knife and from which designs evolved. Not even the historians have this information. The knife shown in El Alamo Museum, supposedly a knife from Bowie, is not a Bowie, but what it seems a bronze handled artillery sword with a modified blade. Many probabilities are open. The important thing is to recognize that, without material evidence, some of this probabilities will be open, including the descendency from a spanish-mexican knife. All the political statements about this subject are superfluos. And also, the fact that even for a more rececent historical model, the existing difficulties in identifying the source and original model of this weapon, and this without having the languaje barrier.

Is very problematic making dogmas in this conditions. If in Nepal there is a reaction agains the brahmanic doings there and this brings to political statements about the kora and the khukri as 'national´weapons, or about their origins, it is not our problem. Looking other threads, as the one linked here, I tend to concur with Jens. Yes, the kora and the khukri could be nepali weapons, but the indian influence on them (even their indian original SOURCES), seem to be very probable, and not only possible. I also strongly agree with the need to use the kind of sources Jens mentions. I can add that it seems a research about the origins of the khukri and the kora passes in an unavoidable manner throught the study of those indian sources, not to mention others. What we can make, is to search some of this sources and discuss them with some scientific approach.

Does anyone has seen or read about the way the koras were carried into battle? I need to confirm this point.

Gonzalo

ariel · 10th May 2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Sirupate, Ariel,

“In the eastern parts of Deccan, some new weapons seem to have been introduced to suit to the regional needs of the people. The ‘Kora’, which could produce deadly blows with its forward curved and broad tipped blade, appears, for the first time, in one of the sculptural panels carved in the second gate of the Mukhalingesvara temple at Mukhalinga,, the capital seat of the Eastern Ganga monarchs. The temple is datable to the second half of the eighth century AD. It may, therefore, be presumed that ‘Kora’, the favourite weapon of the Gurkhas, had come in vogue by the middle of eight century AD”.

I really don’t know what the author means by the word ‘introduced’, but to me the word means that the kora was not ‘invented’ in eastern Deccan or Bengal, but must have come from somewhere else – but from where? Maybe I misunderstand the author, and the kora really was ‘invented’ in eastern Deccan or Bengal, but if so,

it is strange that they are seen on stone sculptures in this area, but as far as I know, not in the area between there and Nepal. How could they ‘jump’ from one place to another without leaving any traces?

Well Ariel, I don’t know, and I can’t say, that I have ever seen a Tibetan kora. Do you have a picture you can show?

Well, that is definitely not my area of expertise ( or major interest), but I learned that info right here, on this Forum:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kora+tibet
Jim's remarks there were the source of my understanding of the difference between the Nepalese ( broad and heavy) and Tibetan ( slender) Koras.
Have I misread the info?

Norman McCormick · 10th May 2009, 12:48 PM

Hi Gonzalo,
I have seen a few Kora complete with sheath but only a few, whether this is down to loss/damage or the possibility that many were used without a scabbard I don't know. The sheaths I have seen have been associated with what I would understand as the archetypal Nepalese Kora rather than the 'Tibetan' or 'Indian' forms. On another note, thank you for your kind remarks re my Tulwar Hilted Kora in a previous thread.
My Regards,
Norman.

dennee · 11th May 2009, 02:47 AM

I'd love to see any good attributions of koras to Tibet. There were certainly examples found there, whether or not any originated there. There are some early to mid-twentieth-century photos of religious dancers with koras, and these koras are narrow, generally with a very convex end, unlike Nepalese examples, but they could have been modified.

I haven't seen koras in other period photos or paintings from Tibet or in monasteries, but I have seen talwars, 'katars,' Indian shields, etc. Weapons made their way into Tibet in any number of ways, and many were donated to the protector chapels in monasteries. Koras may have been attractive for ceremonial use because of their exotic appearance and origins.

Berkley · 11th May 2009, 03:51 AM

Plate 41 in Rawson depicts two "Koras with sheaths covered with velvet; chapes and lockets of pierced and chased silver. From the collection of King Frederick VI. National Museum, Copenhagen".
This image from John Powell shows a much more utilitarian version:

sirupate · 11th May 2009, 08:31 AM

Hello Denee, do you still have access to those photo's? as I was speaking to a friend of mine, who has travelled extensively in Tibet, and he has not seen any Kora/khunda being used there at all, only the traditional Tibetan swords and knives.

Nice picture Berkley, that appears to be a wooden handle on the khunda? The initial problem regarding Rawson works, appears to be no Nepalese input on the khunda.

Berkley · 11th May 2009, 12:42 PM

The grip is leather wrapped ferrous metal.
My reference to Rawson was for the purpose of directing the reader to his photographs, which speak for themselves - the proverbial 1000 words, as it were, in neither Nepali nor English.

Jens Nordlunde · 13th May 2009, 01:56 PM

Thank you for the contribution to this thread, there really have been some very interesting comments, and thank you to Dennee for showing the pictures from Tibet, showing types, which I have not seen before.

What has been written in old books is not a proof in itself, as errors written long ago, have been repeated, sometimes as quotes, and sometimes with the new authors own words, so it can be hard to tell from where he has his knowledge.

To research the weapons of the Indian subcontinent, is not easy, so besides from books we should also take an interest in paintings, miniatures and stone monuments, as the last ones will give a good supplement to the first.

Unfortunately I can’t say how old the kora is, nor can I say from where it is, but I have a feeling it origins from somewhere around Decccan – unproven of course

.

sirupate · 13th May 2009, 04:08 PM

Hello Gonzalo,

Quote:

When I writte about a tibetan group, I mean the migration of the tibetan branch of the mongolic race which invaded Tibet and part of Nepal, and not to a latter migration from the Tibet. At least, this how it is described in my History of Central Asia. I can give bibliographical references about it. Those mongolic groups were not there, in Tibet and Nepal, in the more antique times, and this migration is documented

I have to question what you mean here, are you referring to the Mongols themselves? Because the Parbatiyas and the Kiranti who make up the bulk of the British Gurkhas, probably had very little to do with the Mongols in their origins!

Quote:

but I am talking not about the gorkha kingdom but about the gorkha ethnic group

The Rajput Bhupal made his way to Parbatiya country, and then meeting up with the old Khas at Bhirkot he made is home there. Bhupal and his two sons are accredited as being the first Gorkha family. Gorkhas are basically of Rajput lineage and strict Hindu.

Quote:

and in the same way I answer to Simon: does the fact that Lord Egerton of Tatton DID travel to India (and I don´t), gives him better argument to state that this weapons are descent from the greek ones carried by Alexander the Great?

I would say that having only been to India puts him at a terrific disadvantage about the Nepalese kukri and khunda, I doubt he would have the same views as he has written, if had travelled to Nepal and been permitted access, providing he was able to get over the language barrier!

Norman McCormick · 13th May 2009, 06:56 PM

Hi,
Found these photographs on the net, the arrangement at the ricasso appears unusual for a Kora plus the pin through the hilt and scabbard stylistically, I think, points to an Indian origin for this piece. The langets look like they may have been removed from the hilt, whether this was done to an original blade/hilt marriage or the hilt has been removed from another weapon and modified and added at a later date is difficult to ascertain. The decoration on the pommel is very similar to a Tulwar I have, see thread entitled 'Tulwar Inscription'. Interesting discussion so far.
Regards,
Norman.

2nd May 2009, 02:33 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	How old is the Kora, and from where does it origin? I am reading in a booklet, ’A Catalogue of Arms and Armour in The State Museum, Hyderabad, A.P., 1975’, and here the author M. L. Nigam writes. “In the eastern parts of Deccan, some new weapons seem to have been introduced to suit to the regional needs of the people. The ‘Kora’, which could produce deadly blows with its forward curved and broad tipped blade, appears, for the first time, in one of the sculptural panels carved in the second gate of the Mukhalingesvara temple at Mukhalinga,, the capital seat of the Eastern Ganga monarchs. The temple is datable to the second half of the eighth century AD. It may, therefore, be presumed that ‘Kora’, the favourite weapon of the Gurkhas, had come in vogue by the middle of eight century AD”. If the Kora, in the second half of the eight century was fully developed, it suggests to me, that it, as a type, must be quite a bit older, but from where did it come - any suggestions?

2nd May 2009, 06:32 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,263	I'd suggest that this form developed in many places due to the simple ergonomic function of such a shape for Early Man . Attached Images

13th May 2009, 01:56 PM	#20
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Thank you for the contribution to this thread, there really have been some very interesting comments, and thank you to Dennee for showing the pictures from Tibet, showing types, which I have not seen before. What has been written in old books is not a proof in itself, as errors written long ago, have been repeated, sometimes as quotes, and sometimes with the new authors own words, so it can be hard to tell from where he has his knowledge. To research the weapons of the Indian subcontinent, is not easy, so besides from books we should also take an interest in paintings, miniatures and stone monuments, as the last ones will give a good supplement to the first. Unfortunately I can’t say how old the kora is, nor can I say from where it is, but I have a feeling it origins from somewhere around Decccan – unproven of course.

13th May 2009, 06:56 PM	#22
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Hi, Found these photographs on the net, the arrangement at the ricasso appears unusual for a Kora plus the pin through the hilt and scabbard stylistically, I think, points to an Indian origin for this piece. The langets look like they may have been removed from the hilt, whether this was done to an original blade/hilt marriage or the hilt has been removed from another weapon and modified and added at a later date is difficult to ascertain. The decoration on the pommel is very similar to a Tulwar I have, see thread entitled 'Tulwar Inscription'. Interesting discussion so far. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

2nd May 2009, 05:55 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,765	Hi Jens, Excellent reference from this catalogue, and the subject of this weapon, the kora, and its origins will likely remain a subject of considerable debate indefinitely. This reference reinforces the importance of iconographic sources for study on the development of weapons, as architectural carvings and artwork are static, and can be soundly established with the dating of the structure itself as a rule. Certainly this must be qualified with the fact that many temples and such structures were works in progress over periods of time, but at least a reasonable benchmark can be established. It would seem that the kora, as a weapon, represents more of a concept than specific form, thus its development becomes a matter of perception in many ways rather than distinctly being observed in chronological and geographic lineage, as much as we would like to accomplish that very thing. As noted, the basic style of the kora is observed in the artwork at the Mukhalingesvara Temple which dates to middle 8th c. AD, and as you have noted, the form seems to have been fully developed by this time. The basis for the form itself seems to have come from the ancient Greek kopis, which is essentially an edged weapon with forward curved blade for powerful downward stroke, and its origins believed to derive from the even earlier form known as the Egyptian khopesh. This basic concept has often been assumed to associate the kora, kukri to the Greek kopis via the highly speculated and debated movements of Alexander in these northern regions in the 4th c. BC. The Greek kopis itself is believed to have likely been derived from a bill hook like implement used in slaughter of animals and cutting meat, much the same as this type implement is used in agriculture related utility with the Nepalese tribes, as well as thier ceremonial use in sacrificial ritual, with the kora. The heavier weight by widening the end, adds to the force of the downward cut of the concave edge, thus adding dramatically to the effect of this form of implement either as tool or weapon. With that being the case, it is not inconceivable that the concept might have developed independantly, while the subject of the kora in its distinct form is I think more the point of discussion here. We know that the kora, as such, is widely present not only in Nepal, but congruent regions of Bengal and Orissa. The prevalence of these in Bengal as early as the 17th century is established by provenanced examples in the Royal Danish Kunstkammer and recorded as East India sabres c.1674. It is noted by Elgood in "Hindu Arms and Ritual" that most extant examples of the kora seem to be of 18th-19th c. The travel and adventure writer Fanny Parkes ("Wanderings of a Pilgrim", London, 1845, Vol. II p.243) refers to the kora as a 'bughalee', as noted in Elgood's glossary. While it may be presumed that as the wife of an EIC official and simply romantically observing esoterica, it is worthy of note that she was apparantly quite familiar with weaponry, as one reference shows; "...I have a pencil instead of a gun and it affords me satisfaction equal if not greater than the sportsman derives from his Manton". (Vol. II p.191). Manton= an famous British arms firm in Calcutta who produced shotguns and other weapons. While some travel writers simply offer vague descriptions of weapons, i.e. curved sword, shotgun etc. she is clearly specific, suggesting considerable veracity in her use of the term bughalee used for the 'kora'. The forward curved sword type was also well known on the Iberian peninsula as the falcata, and again, the associations between these, the kopis, the machaira and the khopesh are all ancient forms of this concept (though the blade curvature of the machaira deviates). To effectively link all of them or any of them directly to the kora or kukri must remain speculative, but the determination of the kora in form to the 8th century by this evidence seems well placed. As always, I look foward to the views of others, and this is what I think from what I have understood of previous research and discussions. All the best, Jim

5th May 2009, 06:39 AM	#4
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Interesting thread! I don´t have this material actually referenced, does anyone have pictures of this kora represented in the Mukhalingesvara temple at Mukhalinga? Could it be that the name designates different weapons, as Jim seems to imply? Can we compare the koras mentioned by this authors with the ones produced in Nepal? I still cannot have a picture of the down curved blades from Ajanta! I have seem some other pictures from antique indian iconography, but the down curved blades does not seem remotely as khukris or koras (and for the same purpose, less as machairas, kopis, falcatas, falx and so on), and I don´t know how those weapons were named. At least, do we have a detailed description of this koras as to be sure about the whole geometry of the blade? Is it relevant tha fact mentioned before by Sirupate, in the sense that the word "kora" is not the one used in Nepal? Without better information and some images, all this must be taken very cautiuosly! Regards Gonzalo

5th May 2009, 03:17 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Jim, Gonzalo, Thank you for your answers. Unfortunately I don’t have a picture of the stone piece from the 8th century, I only have what the author has written. After I started this thread, I have been told about a stone relief showing a man holding a kora/kora like sword, and this stone relief was dated to the 6th century. If one wants to study the very old weapons, the safest way to do so, is to study the stone reliefs, and there can be far between the reliefs’s where you see any weapons, but it is the safest way to learn about the subject. Old palm books can be interesting, but they seldom show a drawing of the weapons, and the names used, can often be used for several types of weapons.

9th May 2009, 03:53 PM	#6
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	From the Nepali perspective, there seems to be the thought (in Nepal) that it originated in India, and made its way into Nepal in the early 14th century, and it is classified as a Hindu sacrificial blade and weapon. It is intersting that the Khunda is not commonly found in the Villages of Nepal.

9th May 2009, 04:01 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	What about the Tibetan Kora? Tibetans stem from the Mongoloid culture; did they also get their Kora from Hinduist India?

9th May 2009, 04:36 PM	#8
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Hello Ariel, Are you referring to Sacrificial khunda? I must confess to never having come across Kora/Khunda from Tibet, only small swords and daggers, but Tibet is not my forte. It would seem odd to have a Hindu weapon/sacrificial blade in use, in a Buddist country? Tibetans are not just of Mongol origin btw.

9th May 2009, 04:43 PM	#10
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Sirupate, Ariel, “In the eastern parts of Deccan, some new weapons seem to have been introduced to suit to the regional needs of the people. The ‘Kora’, which could produce deadly blows with its forward curved and broad tipped blade, appears, for the first time, in one of the sculptural panels carved in the second gate of the Mukhalingesvara temple at Mukhalinga,, the capital seat of the Eastern Ganga monarchs. The temple is datable to the second half of the eighth century AD. It may, therefore, be presumed that ‘Kora’, the favourite weapon of the Gurkhas, had come in vogue by the middle of eight century AD”. I really don’t know what the author means by the word ‘introduced’, but to me the word means that the kora was not ‘invented’ in eastern Deccan or Bengal, but must have come from somewhere else – but from where? Maybe I misunderstand the author, and the kora really was ‘invented’ in eastern Deccan or Bengal, but if so, it is strange that they are seen on stone sculptures in this area, but as far as I know, not in the area between there and Nepal. How could they ‘jump’ from one place to another without leaving any traces? Well Ariel, I don’t know, and I can’t say, that I have ever seen a Tibetan kora. Do you have a picture you can show?

17th May 2009, 08:08 AM	#13
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Sorry for my posts out of phase. Sometimes I answer too quick, as I have but a few minutes on internet once or twice a week and I have not time to think better, and sometimes I bring the subject to home to answer, although delayed, to other posts. Now, about the nature of the gorkha group, I must insist in the fact that they were self-proclaimed descendants of a rajput clan. But the documental sources show otherwise. The photos, even the older ones from the 19th Century, show what it seems a more mongolic than indian presence among the gorkha warriors (when I writte ´mongolic, I mean the historical racial classification called mongolic or mongoloid which designates the type of several peoples sharing common features, as opposed to caucasian, negro or negroid, and so on, and NOT to the mongols) . Everybody can check the available documental sources to verify it. It is the same situation with the gurkha enlisted in the British Army. Who are those gurkha and from which ethnic group they came in the past? Are they gorkha warriors? Then, why many (maybe most of them) are mongolic? On other side, I have not yet seen a study about the ethic origins of the gorkha. Everybody repeats that the gorkha are descendants from rajputs, based on what they say, and somebody also mentions early brahmans, although the brahmans are not an ethnic group but a caste present in all India. And it is added that they are mainly from mongolic descent, as it was not a contradiction in terms with the above statement, because as far as I understand, rajputs are not mongolic, isn´t it? Confronted with this information, it can be made temporarily the hypothesis, or at least, the conjecture, that the gorkha were not really an ethnic group from India, though some of its members most probably are. Among them, some or many of the members of the top elite group on the direction of the gorkha State in the time of the conquest of the Katmandu Valley. But as I said previously, for reasons of prestige all the gorkha self covered with this legend about their collective origins, though this is contradicted by the massive presence of individuals of mongolic descent, judging by the available documental sources. On the other side, I saved the page from the other thread, linked above: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=kora+tibet (Jens, why you didn´t mention THAT picture from B.I. of the indian sculpture?). That thread is very interesting, as it has the same subject of this one. For one side, the possible origins of the kora are mentioned. The pictures of the weapons nailed in the Bag Bharirav temple in Kirtipur (post No. 20 in that thread) makes me think. If this are weapons sized by the gorkha from their enemies of the Katmandu Valley, I see proportionally many koras there. If the koras were not used but rarely, why so many (again proportionally) of them? They are mainly seized koras, and not other kind of weapons. And if the koras were exclusive from the gorkha and the khukri a very extended weapon in all Nepal since then, why the gorkha seized koras from the people of the Katmandu Valley, and why only one of what it seems a kora handled khukri appear in this photos? Of course, there is the possibility that the photos maybe does not show all the weapons present on the temple, and they are selectively showed in this photos. Maby the persons who traveled to Nepal can explain. I can reinforce my reasons to explain the possible absence of the kora in latter times, and the undeniable bigger proportion of khukris with this simple example: in other times, in México, there were used swords and sabers by many people. And also machetes, in bigger numbers, as the machete was a working people, and besides alwayas has been a cheaper tool-weapon and in México the poor people always has been the much bigger part of the population. Today, you can’t find swords and sabers in the towns of the country. Not even in private hands. They are not made or purchased anymore, and the survivors were sold much time ago to collectors. Mainly foreign collectors. In other times, we had mexican, spanish, french, german and USA swords and sabers by tons. But not anymore. Instead, you can find at least one machete in every house on the country, or in most of them. We can declare the machete a national tool-weapon, Most of the actual mexicans never saw a physical saber, but in pictures, even when we had a revolution less than one hundred years ago, and plenty of sabers were circulating in all the country. If a european comes to Mexico, he could think that only few swords and sabers existed here, and that mexicans fought only with machetes all his wars. Simon, what gives a person good grounds and evidence for a statement about an antique weapon, is not the fact that he has traveled to the place in which those weapons were used, unless he also travels in time. Certainly he can pick up a lot of information looking at this weapons, and he can hear many testimonies, but that has limitations. MATERIAL evidence is needed. You need archaelogical proof, or at least probable cause, based on some facts and a good logical reasons. I have traveled, almost lived, part of my life in the USA. I have made some research about the origin of the Bowie knife, which is still made in this days. It is relatively a very recent model of knife, and it appeared in a society with some level of education. But nobody knows for sure the original design of this knife and from which designs evolved. Not even the historians have this information. The knife shown in El Alamo Museum, supposedly a knife from Bowie, is not a Bowie, but what it seems a bronze handled artillery sword with a modified blade. Many probabilities are open. The important thing is to recognize that, without material evidence, some of this probabilities will be open, including the descendency from a spanish-mexican knife. All the political statements about this subject are superfluos. And also, the fact that even for a more rececent historical model, the existing difficulties in identifying the source and original model of this weapon, and this without having the languaje barrier. Is very problematic making dogmas in this conditions. If in Nepal there is a reaction agains the brahmanic doings there and this brings to political statements about the kora and the khukri as 'national´weapons, or about their origins, it is not our problem. Looking other threads, as the one linked here, I tend to concur with Jens. Yes, the kora and the khukri could be nepali weapons, but the indian influence on them (even their indian original SOURCES), seem to be very probable, and not only possible. I also strongly agree with the need to use the kind of sources Jens mentions. I can add that it seems a research about the origins of the khukri and the kora passes in an unavoidable manner throught the study of those indian sources, not to mention others. What we can make, is to search some of this sources and discuss them with some scientific approach. Does anyone has seen or read about the way the koras were carried into battle? I need to confirm this point. Gonzalo

10th May 2009, 12:48 PM	#15
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Hi Gonzalo, I have seen a few Kora complete with sheath but only a few, whether this is down to loss/damage or the possibility that many were used without a scabbard I don't know. The sheaths I have seen have been associated with what I would understand as the archetypal Nepalese Kora rather than the 'Tibetan' or 'Indian' forms. On another note, thank you for your kind remarks re my Tulwar Hilted Kora in a previous thread. My Regards, Norman.

11th May 2009, 02:47 AM	#16
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	I'd love to see any good attributions of koras to Tibet. There were certainly examples found there, whether or not any originated there. There are some early to mid-twentieth-century photos of religious dancers with koras, and these koras are narrow, generally with a very convex end, unlike Nepalese examples, but they could have been modified. I haven't seen koras in other period photos or paintings from Tibet or in monasteries, but I have seen talwars, 'katars,' Indian shields, etc. Weapons made their way into Tibet in any number of ways, and many were donated to the protector chapels in monasteries. Koras may have been attractive for ceremonial use because of their exotic appearance and origins.

11th May 2009, 03:51 AM	#17
Berkley Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas USA Posts: 257	Plate 41 in Rawson depicts two "Koras with sheaths covered with velvet; chapes and lockets of pierced and chased silver. From the collection of King Frederick VI. National Museum, Copenhagen". This image from John Powell shows a much more utilitarian version:

11th May 2009, 08:31 AM	#18
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Hello Denee, do you still have access to those photo's? as I was speaking to a friend of mine, who has travelled extensively in Tibet, and he has not seen any Kora/khunda being used there at all, only the traditional Tibetan swords and knives. Nice picture Berkley, that appears to be a wooden handle on the khunda? The initial problem regarding Rawson works, appears to be no Nepalese input on the khunda.

11th May 2009, 12:42 PM	#19
Berkley Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas USA Posts: 257	The grip is leather wrapped ferrous metal. My reference to Rawson was for the purpose of directing the reader to his photographs, which speak for themselves - the proverbial 1000 words, as it were, in neither Nepali nor English.