Assad Allah

ward · 9th February 2008, 08:44 PM

I found this depiction of a lion dates to 3rd-4th century Roman occupation in the Bardo museum in Tunis,Tunisia. It is very close to the the style used in the Assad Allah trade blades. I believe we can infer that this is probaly the earlier form that the symbol is based upon.

Jim McDougall · 13th February 2008, 05:41 AM

Interesting perception Ward ! It does seem that these lion figures were quite often seen symbolically in ancient art, and it is especially interesting that this Roman example is found in Tunisia. In an article on this topic from the New York Times ("Imperial Nights in Tunisia With Mythology Underfoot", Geraldine Fabrikant, 4/11/07), it is noted that North Africans by legal statute were granted advantageous status and compensation for adhering to values of Roman civilization. Wealthy Tunisians tried to imitate Roman culture and art and had lavish floor mosaics put in thier homes. The lion seems to have been a popular theme.

The Romans during these times were heavily influenced by the Sassanid Empire of Persia, and it is interesting that in some cases the golden lion had been adopted as a standard device by prominant figures. It would seem possible that the lion figure may have found its way to North Africa via the Romans and possibly from Sassanian influence.

In the outstanding article by Oliver Pinchot, "The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah" ("Arms Collecting" Vol.40, #1, Feb. 2002) footnote 42, notes, "...the Shir e Khorshid, or Lion and Sun, became the Qajar dynastic crest, in emulation of European models, and remained the Persian state emblem until recently. The lion was also an important icon in pre-Islamic Persia".
In the article, it is further noted that the use of the lion pictogram became popular during the increased volume production of trade blades during the Qajar era to allude to the Assad Allah signature, and more commercially superceding the typical cartouches with makers name incised and inlaid with gold or brass.

The image of this lion from North Africa does show a marked similarity to the Persian Shir e Khorshid, and in degree to the Ethiopian Lion of Judah, as well as European heraldic lions, and beautifully illustrates the diffusion of artistic symbolism through historic times.

Thank you so much for posting this Ward!

All the best,
Jim

HUSAR · 13th February 2008, 06:40 PM

looks similar

ward · 14th February 2008, 01:11 AM

Damian that is a nice piece if you had been out of town that day it would have been mine. oh well

Jim McDougall · 14th February 2008, 04:45 AM

This is a good example of the pictograph discussed Husar! What type of sword is the blade from?

HUSAR · 14th February 2008, 07:08 AM

Hello Jim
The sword is very similar to one i already have (pictures). However blade is lighter and longer (almost 87cm) The difference in 3 chiseled inscription instead of 2 and some gold work along the blade and also gold inscription which I posted yesterday on forum. I will try to take some pictures of this particular sword during weekend and post on forum.

HUSAR · 14th February 2008, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

Damian that is a nice piece if you had been out of town that day it would have been mine. oh well

Thats true ! This time I was just more lucky

Jim McDougall · 14th February 2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUSAR

Hello Jim
The sword is very similar to one i already have (pictures). However blade is lighter and longer (almost 87cm) The difference in 3 chiseled inscription instead of 2 and some gold work along the blade and also gold inscription which I posted yesterday on forum. I will try to take some pictures of this particular sword during weekend and post on forum.

Thank you posting this one Husar! I look forward to seeing it.
This sabre you have posted is very nearly a textbook example of the Persian trade blades discussed in Oliver Pinchot's excellent article. The hilt is clearly Syrian and I have seen nearly the same channeled blades with the pictograph on Arabian sabres of probably the same 19th century period. The blade on this one you have posted is by far one of the nicest I have seen!
Is there a panel of chiseled calligraphy on the reverse side of the blade?

There was an article some time ago in "Arts of Asia" (I believe by Welch) that has an illustration of a blade of this form that is I believe mounted in a tulwar, and the form also is seen in Robert Elgood's "Arms and Armour of Arabia". I'll see if I can find the references.

All best regards,
Jim

Jens Nordlunde · 14th February 2008, 01:05 PM

Here is another of these type of blade, also Syrian.

Jim McDougall · 15th February 2008, 02:03 AM

Very nice Jens! That is the type of calligraphy panel I was looking for. These blades really got around!
All the best,
Jim

ALEX · 17th February 2008, 01:06 PM

Husar,
In your earlier post you asked for translation. On the side with 3 cartouches: top one reads "O,Fulfiller of Needs", the bottom under lion reads "work of AssadAllah". The cartouche on another side reads "Reign of Shah Abbas".
Without doubt it is very nice sword, and I agree with you - having 3 cartouches is rare and makes it even more interesting:-)
How's condition of the sword and what "relic" description means, i.e. are there any deep pittings or deep/through rust on the blade?

Ward, this is interesting analogy. I atach pictures of 19th Cent brass charger made in Syria, propably for the Persian market, with unusual motif with chiselled cartouches and small lion? or dog? This is a good quality work, but still hard to tell. Any comments?

ward · 17th February 2008, 08:03 PM

That charger is interesting. That is a odd creature a mix of a cat with a lion. I would have to sit down for a while to translate that piece but I have a hunch that it relates to the fable or strory being told in the rest of pic.

ALEX · 17th February 2008, 08:22 PM

Ward, I agree - it is rather unusual creature. Resonates with another cartouche we discussed earlier, which was determined to be a lion depiction of bad quality (Even though I still think it'a a dog every time I look at it, mainly because it has no paws and the ears are pointing up! see pic below). A lion is usually depicted with large paws, or at least in a way one can see them as being "lion paws" and the ears pointing down, just as on HUSAR's sword above, as well as on both lions in Oliver's article.

Have anyone seen a cartouche depicting a lion without well-defined paws and ears being pointing down to the side?

P.S. It just struck me. Can it be a cat? Cats are much more favorable in Middle East, especially in Syria (and of-course in Egypt:-) than dogs. Since the charger was made in Syria for Persian market - can it be a Persian cat?
Look - paws are not defined and ears are pointing up!!!
Going even further - is it possible that someone would put a cat in the sword cartouche? Sorry, I am going too far with this... I promise not to mention cows and goats

ward · 17th February 2008, 09:37 PM

I would have said a cat except for the mane around the head. I do not think you will find a cartouche of a cat on a Islamic sword. Yes cats are well liked in muslim coutries, but I do not feel that they would convey the same attributes of what a lion usually would. Cats are usually favoried because of their relationship with Muhammad. The cat warned him of immediate attack, he cut off the arm of his robe so as not to disturb the cat etc etc. I think a lot of the love of cats has to do with their control of mice and rats in these countries because the cats eat them. That is just a opinion.

Jens Nordlunde · 17th February 2008, 10:12 PM

How about a Yarli?

Jeff D · 17th February 2008, 10:37 PM

Actually now that I look at the cartouche it reminds me of something I saw at the Vegas show. Maybe it is a Chupacabra? May be Rick can add to this

.

ward · 18th February 2008, 01:56 PM

Jeff i belive you are reaching on that one.

RSWORD · 18th February 2008, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff D

Actually now that I look at the cartouche it reminds me of something I saw at the Vegas show. Maybe it is a Chupacabra? May be Rick can add to this

.

Hi Jeff,

LOL! The Chupacabra is an elusive creature but I don't think it has made its way to the Middle East! But Vegas, now that is another matter!

It was good chatting at the show and I trust you are over your cold by now!

13th February 2008, 05:41 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,778	Interesting perception Ward ! It does seem that these lion figures were quite often seen symbolically in ancient art, and it is especially interesting that this Roman example is found in Tunisia. In an article on this topic from the New York Times ("Imperial Nights in Tunisia With Mythology Underfoot", Geraldine Fabrikant, 4/11/07), it is noted that North Africans by legal statute were granted advantageous status and compensation for adhering to values of Roman civilization. Wealthy Tunisians tried to imitate Roman culture and art and had lavish floor mosaics put in thier homes. The lion seems to have been a popular theme. The Romans during these times were heavily influenced by the Sassanid Empire of Persia, and it is interesting that in some cases the golden lion had been adopted as a standard device by prominant figures. It would seem possible that the lion figure may have found its way to North Africa via the Romans and possibly from Sassanian influence. In the outstanding article by Oliver Pinchot, "The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah" ("Arms Collecting" Vol.40, #1, Feb. 2002) footnote 42, notes, "...the Shir e Khorshid, or Lion and Sun, became the Qajar dynastic crest, in emulation of European models, and remained the Persian state emblem until recently. The lion was also an important icon in pre-Islamic Persia". In the article, it is further noted that the use of the lion pictogram became popular during the increased volume production of trade blades during the Qajar era to allude to the Assad Allah signature, and more commercially superceding the typical cartouches with makers name incised and inlaid with gold or brass. The image of this lion from North Africa does show a marked similarity to the Persian Shir e Khorshid, and in degree to the Ethiopian Lion of Judah, as well as European heraldic lions, and beautifully illustrates the diffusion of artistic symbolism through historic times. Thank you so much for posting this Ward! All the best, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 14th February 2008 at 12:31 PM. Reason: wording

13th February 2008, 06:40 PM	#3
HUSAR Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 80	almost just like on my new sword :) looks similar Attached Images

14th February 2008, 07:08 AM	#6
HUSAR Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 80	sword Hello Jim The sword is very similar to one i already have (pictures). However blade is lighter and longer (almost 87cm) The difference in 3 chiseled inscription instead of 2 and some gold work along the blade and also gold inscription which I posted yesterday on forum. I will try to take some pictures of this particular sword during weekend and post on forum. Attached Images

14th February 2008, 01:05 PM	#9
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Here is another of these type of blade, also Syrian. Attached Images

17th February 2008, 01:06 PM	#11
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Husar, In your earlier post you asked for translation. On the side with 3 cartouches: top one reads "O,Fulfiller of Needs", the bottom under lion reads "work of AssadAllah". The cartouche on another side reads "Reign of Shah Abbas". Without doubt it is very nice sword, and I agree with you - having 3 cartouches is rare and makes it even more interesting:-) How's condition of the sword and what "relic" description means, i.e. are there any deep pittings or deep/through rust on the blade? Ward, this is interesting analogy. I atach pictures of 19th Cent brass charger made in Syria, propably for the Persian market, with unusual motif with chiselled cartouches and small lion? or dog? This is a good quality work, but still hard to tell. Any comments? Attached Images

9th February 2008, 08:44 PM	#1
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Assad Allah I found this depiction of a lion dates to 3rd-4th century Roman occupation in the Bardo museum in Tunis,Tunisia. It is very close to the the style used in the Assad Allah trade blades. I believe we can infer that this is probaly the earlier form that the symbol is based upon. Attached Images

14th February 2008, 01:11 AM	#4
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Damian that is a nice piece if you had been out of town that day it would have been mine. oh well

14th February 2008, 04:45 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,778	This is a good example of the pictograph discussed Husar! What type of sword is the blade from?

15th February 2008, 02:03 AM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,778	Very nice Jens! That is the type of calligraphy panel I was looking for. These blades really got around! All the best, Jim

17th February 2008, 08:03 PM	#12
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	That charger is interesting. That is a odd creature a mix of a cat with a lion. I would have to sit down for a while to translate that piece but I have a hunch that it relates to the fable or strory being told in the rest of pic. Attached Images

17th February 2008, 08:22 PM	#13
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Ward, I agree - it is rather unusual creature. Resonates with another cartouche we discussed earlier, which was determined to be a lion depiction of bad quality (Even though I still think it'a a dog every time I look at it, mainly because it has no paws and the ears are pointing up! see pic below). A lion is usually depicted with large paws, or at least in a way one can see them as being "lion paws" and the ears pointing down, just as on HUSAR's sword above, as well as on both lions in Oliver's article. Have anyone seen a cartouche depicting a lion without well-defined paws and ears being pointing down to the side? P.S. It just struck me. Can it be a cat? Cats are much more favorable in Middle East, especially in Syria (and of-course in Egypt:-) than dogs. Since the charger was made in Syria for Persian market - can it be a Persian cat? Look - paws are not defined and ears are pointing up!!! Going even further - is it possible that someone would put a cat in the sword cartouche? Sorry, I am going too far with this... I promise not to mention cows and goats Attached Images Last edited by ALEX; 17th February 2008 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Pows and Ears Observations

17th February 2008, 09:37 PM	#14
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I would have said a cat except for the mane around the head. I do not think you will find a cartouche of a cat on a Islamic sword. Yes cats are well liked in muslim coutries, but I do not feel that they would convey the same attributes of what a lion usually would. Cats are usually favoried because of their relationship with Muhammad. The cat warned him of immediate attack, he cut off the arm of his robe so as not to disturb the cat etc etc. I think a lot of the love of cats has to do with their control of mice and rats in these countries because the cats eat them. That is just a opinion. Last edited by ward; 17th February 2008 at 09:39 PM. Reason: grammer

17th February 2008, 10:12 PM	#15
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	How about a Yarli?

17th February 2008, 10:37 PM	#16
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Actually now that I look at the cartouche it reminds me of something I saw at the Vegas show. Maybe it is a Chupacabra? May be Rick can add to this . Attached Images

18th February 2008, 01:56 PM	#17
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Jeff i belive you are reaching on that one.