magnificant jambiya - translation needed

TimW · 21st December 2010, 08:39 AM

hy all

a while ago i stumbled upon this very nice jambiya. The piece is of wonderful workmanship: gold plated silver handle and sheath, wootz blade (sorry for the lousy picture) with gold inlay, ... Unfortunately the blade / tang is broken, but I'll figure out a way to repair this.

If there is anybody able to translate the text on the blade: it would be very appreciated.

Here are the pics... and thanks for looking

A.alnakkas · 21st December 2010, 05:44 PM

amazing piece, congratulations!

I couldnt read the first inscription fully but the first word is عمل which means: Work of.

the 2nd inscription reads صاحب سيد سلمان 1311 which means: owner Sayed Salman Date 1311 hijri which makes it a 19th century piece? think the 3 could be 2 but i'd leave it to someone with better eyes

A.Alnakkas

ALEX · 21st December 2010, 06:06 PM

Very nice Ottoman Jambiya with wootz blade. Congratulations! I think the date reads 1211, which is 18th Century (1796). however, this type is typical of mid/late 19th Century Balkan jambiya. Good luck restoring the tang, definitely worth the effort. Make sure not to overheat the blade!

Dom · 21st December 2010, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

amazing piece, congratulations!

I couldnt read the first inscription fully but the first word is عمل which means: Work of.

the 2nd inscription reads صاحب سيد سلمان 1311 which means: owner Sayed Salman Date 1311 hijri which makes it a 19th century piece? think the 3 could be 2 but i'd leave it to someone with better eyes

A.Alnakkas

Salam Aleikum "alnakkas"
the name of the blacksmith was might be Persian,
the second word is "brardroumi" and there is a sign illegible in Arabic

for the digit 2 and 3, me too, at beginning I was confused,
but almost of time we found the character is like in printing,
not in form writing

Arabic English
SAHEB OWNER
AMAL MADE BY
SANA YEAR

à +

Dom

A.alnakkas · 22nd December 2010, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

Salam Aleikum "alnakkas"
the name of the blacksmith was might be Persian,
the second word is "brardroumi" and there is a sign illegible in Arabic

for the digit 2 and 3, me too, at beginning I was confused,
but almost of time we found the character is like in printing,
not in form writing

Arabic English
SAHEB OWNER
AMAL MADE BY
SANA YEAR

à +

Dom

Wa'alaykom elsalam

its interesting that they write it in the printing form rather then writing form. great info!

A.Alnakkas

archer · 29th May 2011, 11:26 PM

Hi, Have you decided to repair your fantastic jambiya ? I had a thought that I believe that some similarly broken keris are repaired by drilling out the tang from the blade base and inserting a new one this would allow for braze, solder or even cold epoxying. The hilt portion of the tang may be heated enough with a heavy soldering iron to the remaining tang, or it may be anchored by usually white crystalized cuttlers' glue. The glue seems readily melted by warm water. Something like these steps would restore its' appearance. Steve

rickystl · 30th May 2011, 12:30 AM

That is a beautiful blade !!! Worth the fix.

Battara · 30th May 2011, 12:32 AM

Certainly if you try to braze steel to steel or braze anything else to the blade, the heat will change the blade and possibly not just damage the steel but in this case damage the softer gold as well. Cold epoxy might be the only method (say like JB Weld for example).

archer · 30th May 2011, 07:45 AM

Hi Jose, I should have mentioned the use of heat sinks. Large metal against the blade, also have used wet rags near the site to quench extra heat. JB weld is an excellent epoxy for the job. Wouldn't tinned solder melt at much lower temps than gold? Steve

TimW · 31st May 2011, 09:59 AM

Hy all

I did not touch the knife yet: want to think it over before screwing things up. Brazing is not an option (temp is too high); soldering could work (180 °C with blade compeletly immersed in water); drilling and inserting a rod could work too. The tang is removed from the handle. A friend suggested very controlled / precise TIG welding (he knows a guy that could do it for me).

If i get it fixed, i'll let you know the result.

Thx for the interest.

David · 31st May 2011, 01:54 PM

If you decide to go with the cold method i have personally had very good results with JB Weld.
I do really wonder how the tang of such a fine blade got broken in the first place. This isn't exactly the kind of blade you'd expect to see someone using in combat.

A. G. Maisey · 31st May 2011, 02:42 PM

This is the first time I have seen this thread.

Please tell me the thickness of the thickest part of the blade where it is broken, and the thickness of the blade where it is broken, and the width of the undecorated section of the blade where it is broken.

What I would like to know is the actual accurate dimensions of the part of the blade that you have available to fix a substitute tang to.

21st December 2010, 08:39 AM	#1
TimW Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 54	magnificant jambiya - translation needed hy all a while ago i stumbled upon this very nice jambiya. The piece is of wonderful workmanship: gold plated silver handle and sheath, wootz blade (sorry for the lousy picture) with gold inlay, ... Unfortunately the blade / tang is broken, but I'll figure out a way to repair this. If there is anybody able to translate the text on the blade: it would be very appreciated. Here are the pics... and thanks for looking

21st December 2010, 06:06 PM	#3
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 935	Very nice Ottoman Jambiya with wootz blade. Congratulations! I think the date reads 1211, which is 18th Century (1796). however, this type is typical of mid/late 19th Century Balkan jambiya. Good luck restoring the tang, definitely worth the effort. Make sure not to overheat the blade! Last edited by ALEX; 21st December 2010 at 06:20 PM.

29th May 2011, 11:26 PM	#6
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	jambiya Repair Hi, Have you decided to repair your fantastic jambiya ? I had a thought that I believe that some similarly broken keris are repaired by drilling out the tang from the blade base and inserting a new one this would allow for braze, solder or even cold epoxying. The hilt portion of the tang may be heated enough with a heavy soldering iron to the remaining tang, or it may be anchored by usually white crystalized cuttlers' glue. The glue seems readily melted by warm water. Something like these steps would restore its' appearance. Steve

30th May 2011, 07:45 AM	#9
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Heat Sinks Hi Jose, I should have mentioned the use of heat sinks. Large metal against the blade, also have used wet rags near the site to quench extra heat. JB weld is an excellent epoxy for the job. Wouldn't tinned solder melt at much lower temps than gold? Steve

21st December 2010, 05:44 PM	#2
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,338	amazing piece, congratulations! I couldnt read the first inscription fully but the first word is عمل which means: Work of. the 2nd inscription reads صاحب سيد سلمان 1311 which means: owner Sayed Salman Date 1311 hijri which makes it a 19th century piece? think the 3 could be 2 but i'd leave it to someone with better eyes A.Alnakkas

30th May 2011, 12:30 AM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	That is a beautiful blade !!! Worth the fix.

30th May 2011, 12:32 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Certainly if you try to braze steel to steel or braze anything else to the blade, the heat will change the blade and possibly not just damage the steel but in this case damage the softer gold as well. Cold epoxy might be the only method (say like JB Weld for example).

31st May 2011, 09:59 AM	#10
TimW Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 54	Hy all I did not touch the knife yet: want to think it over before screwing things up. Brazing is not an option (temp is too high); soldering could work (180 °C with blade compeletly immersed in water); drilling and inserting a rod could work too. The tang is removed from the handle. A friend suggested very controlled / precise TIG welding (he knows a guy that could do it for me). If i get it fixed, i'll let you know the result. Thx for the interest.

31st May 2011, 01:54 PM	#11
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,024	If you decide to go with the cold method i have personally had very good results with JB Weld. I do really wonder how the tang of such a fine blade got broken in the first place. This isn't exactly the kind of blade you'd expect to see someone using in combat.

31st May 2011, 02:42 PM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	This is the first time I have seen this thread. Please tell me the thickness of the thickest part of the blade where it is broken, and the thickness of the blade where it is broken, and the width of the undecorated section of the blade where it is broken. What I would like to know is the actual accurate dimensions of the part of the blade that you have available to fix a substitute tang to.