Old Bali keris

Sajen · 13th April 2011, 07:56 PM

Hello,

just bought this fine old Bali keris. Only the the wewer is missing. Scarce dapur with original Bali stain. And I like the wrongko from gembal jati (I think that it is this wood). What do you think, keep the hilt or change it to a figural hilt? In the moment I am incline to keep it with this hilt.

Detlef

Marcokeris · 13th April 2011, 10:02 PM

IMO the hilt is OK

Nice keris

asomotif · 13th April 2011, 10:07 PM

Hi Detlef,

Nice keris.
I would keep the hilt. Looks like a good original combi to me.
Check the peksi , maybe the hilt should fit even lower and a uwer is not missing at all.
A lot of old Bali Keris are without uwer.

Other option is to sent it to the Netherlands

Best regards,
Willem

Hartadi · 14th April 2011, 12:26 PM

Hello Detlef, it's nice keris !
The Pelet of hilt isn't match with the warangka, you probably need other hilt to this

David · 14th April 2011, 01:56 PM

hmmm....if this hilt isn't a "match" for this sarong i don't know how you would go about finding one that matched better... I think this hilt looks fine. Have you removed it yet. It is possible that there might just be something up top of the hole that prevents the hilt from coming down more. If not it's easy enough to bore the hole a little deeper for a better fit. As for a uwer, a nice one is easily obtainable. Some very ornate hilts sometimes do not seem to need them. IMO this ensemble would look better with one. I am not convinced that all the Bali keris that we find without uwers were always that way. I think sometimes they may have been sold off along the way (if precious metals and jeweled) or damaged and not replaced. Certainly we see more elaborate hilts where a uwer would just be too much, but with a standard everyday dress like this it seems more appropriate.
Also IMO, the practice of collectors to so freely trade up for need hilts and other parts is a strange one to me. Unless something is damaged or out of place it is my general tendency to preserve the ensembles as they are. After all the keris comes to us with a certain amount of history and this hilt is part of that history.

Sajen · 14th April 2011, 05:37 PM

Thank you all for comment! Like I write before I am incline to keep the hilt. A nice uwer I still have, this don't will be a problem. I don't have the keris in my hands until now, I will post some pictures when I have received it. David, I am also not a friend to change a hilt when I see that this one was long together with a keris but many times you can't be sure about this. BTW I think that it was and still is a well-established practice to change hilts by a keris.
Willem, when I am bored with this keris I will send it to you!

Regards,

Detlef

asomotif · 14th April 2011, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I am not convinced that all the Bali keris that we find without uwers were always that way. I think sometimes they may have been sold off along the way (if precious metals and jeweled) or damaged and not replaced.

I recall a thread where I cheked the RMV and KIT files for old Bali keris.
And a lot of them where without uwer. But then again. This does not proof much. Considering that those keris are all pre WW2, one can imagine that for instance during WW2 museum personel would trade off the metal and gems for food / cigarettes and other daily needs.

Anyway, lets see what Detlef can say once he receives the keris.

Best regrards,
Willem

13th April 2011, 07:56 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,491	Old Bali keris Hello, just bought this fine old Bali keris. Only the the wewer is missing. Scarce dapur with original Bali stain. And I like the wrongko from gembal jati (I think that it is this wood). What do you think, keep the hilt or change it to a figural hilt? In the moment I am incline to keep it with this hilt. Detlef Attached Images

13th April 2011, 10:02 PM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	IMO the hilt is OK Nice keris

13th April 2011, 10:07 PM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	Hi Detlef, Nice keris. I would keep the hilt. Looks like a good original combi to me. Check the peksi , maybe the hilt should fit even lower and a uwer is not missing at all. A lot of old Bali Keris are without uwer. Other option is to sent it to the Netherlands Best regards, Willem

14th April 2011, 12:26 PM	#4
Hartadi Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 56	Hello Detlef, it's nice keris ! The Pelet of hilt isn't match with the warangka, you probably need other hilt to this

14th April 2011, 01:56 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,025	hmmm....if this hilt isn't a "match" for this sarong i don't know how you would go about finding one that matched better... I think this hilt looks fine. Have you removed it yet. It is possible that there might just be something up top of the hole that prevents the hilt from coming down more. If not it's easy enough to bore the hole a little deeper for a better fit. As for a uwer, a nice one is easily obtainable. Some very ornate hilts sometimes do not seem to need them. IMO this ensemble would look better with one. I am not convinced that all the Bali keris that we find without uwers were always that way. I think sometimes they may have been sold off along the way (if precious metals and jeweled) or damaged and not replaced. Certainly we see more elaborate hilts where a uwer would just be too much, but with a standard everyday dress like this it seems more appropriate. Also IMO, the practice of collectors to so freely trade up for need hilts and other parts is a strange one to me. Unless something is damaged or out of place it is my general tendency to preserve the ensembles as they are. After all the keris comes to us with a certain amount of history and this hilt is part of that history.

14th April 2011, 05:37 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,491	Thank you all for comment! Like I write before I am incline to keep the hilt. A nice uwer I still have, this don't will be a problem. I don't have the keris in my hands until now, I will post some pictures when I have received it. David, I am also not a friend to change a hilt when I see that this one was long together with a keris but many times you can't be sure about this. BTW I think that it was and still is a well-established practice to change hilts by a keris. Willem, when I am bored with this keris I will send it to you! Regards, Detlef