Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12th May 2017, 11:53 AM   #1
rasdan
Member
 
rasdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 367
Default Archeological Finding

Hi guys,

Yesterday I contacted a friend (Raja Kamarazaman - in facebook) that is an metal detecting enthusiast regarding his keris related find. He had recently found another keris hilt with gold pendongkok. Interestingly, the pendongkok is probably the gold Bugis pendongkok we normally see on gold encrusted Bugis keris, however the hilt is wood and looks almost Javanese - what we know as Jogja hilt nowadays. Have you seen earlier specimens of keris outside of Jawa that uses this type of hilt? Or probably this is actually a Jawa keris? I also attached pictures of the earlier pendongkok that had found - that have rubies in them.
Attached Images
            
rasdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2017, 02:39 PM   #2
Athanase
Member
 
Athanase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 403
Default

I have the same hilt on a bugis Keris from Sulawesi.
The handle looks old but newer than the blade and scabbard (The Ganja is missing, and the brass selut is too wide for the handle).
Athanase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2017, 03:10 PM   #3
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,860
Default

I don't understand something as I see two different seluts in the photos:
1. the first one in the second photo attached to the crudely chopped hilt and in the third photo,
2. the second one, in the last photos.
Anyhow, both appear to be old workmanship and genuine to me. I would love to have any one of them!
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2017, 04:28 PM   #4
rasdan
Member
 
rasdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 367
Default

That is cool Athanase. Can we see a picture of the hilt?

Marius, there's actually 2 pendongkok. The first 3 pictures are the recently found. The other pictures are the one that was found earlier.
rasdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2017, 05:33 PM   #5
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,213
Default

Hello Rasdan,

No blade remains found, no pesi inside the hilt?

I have a really tough time to believe that hilt and selut were born together... Even allowing for some deterioration, the hilt does look to be of very mundane quality.

There is an Aceh hilt based on the Javanese planar grip. The high-end versions came with this type of selut and were royal gifts to local rulers in the greater Aceh sphere of influence; however, one would expect hilts from status material and excellent workmanship.

Regards,
Kai

Last edited by kai; 12th May 2017 at 07:05 PM.
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2017, 06:28 PM   #6
rasdan
Member
 
rasdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 367
Default

Hello Kai,

I am not sure if there was a blade found or remnants of a pesi in the hilt. I guess it was found like in the first picture.

When you mentioned Acheh, it rings a bell in my mind. I think in Kris Disk there's a non javanese keris with an ivory hilt that looks like a Jogja hilt. I didn't found the picture but I found the one below. Thanks for pointing it out Kai.
Attached Images
 
rasdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2017, 07:03 PM   #7
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,213
Default

Hello Rasdan,

Yes, that's another example of these bawar hilts.

Here are the Aceh gift keris from the northern Sumatran highlands:
hilt silver
cup suasa/rubies

Regards,
Kai
Attached Images
 
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 06:26 AM   #8
rasdan
Member
 
rasdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 367
Default

Thanks Kai, keris you posted above is the one that I meant. Now I know that this combination is not an oddity.
rasdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 12:32 PM   #9
Athanase
Member
 
Athanase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 403
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rasdan
That is cool Athanase. Can we see a picture of the hilt?
I would try to do it on Monday because the Kriss is in my office.

You mention the KrisDisk: I can't find it and the email address of the author (given on the forum a few years ago) is no longer valid.
Where can I buy it?
Athanase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 01:38 PM   #10
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Athanase
I would try to do it on Monday because the Kriss is in my office.

You mention the KrisDisk: I can't find it and the email address of the author (given on the forum a few years ago) is no longer valid.
Where can I buy it?
The email is no longer valid because i am afraid the author passed on a few years back. You can sometimes find offers for the KrisDisk used on eBay or other auction sites. If anyone has a copy to offer Athanase, please approach through Private Messaging, not on this thread. Thanks!
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th May 2017, 07:04 AM   #11
rasdan
Member
 
rasdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 367
Default

Thanks Athanase. I'll sent you a private message where you can purchase the disk.
rasdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2017, 06:42 PM   #12
Athanase
Member
 
Athanase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 403
Default

Thank you!
he photos of my kriss with similar hilt :
Attached Images
 
Athanase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2017, 10:35 PM   #13
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,675
Default

Athanase, this keris of yours is in my opinion a Lombok keris.

The hilt is Balinese, the pendongkok Bugis, the scabbard is a Bugis style, the blade I cannot ID from what I can see, but it does appear to be missing its gonjo. In other words, it is a mix, but mixed components are far, far more usual in real life than collectors care to believe.

Lombok was colonised by the Balinese, then the Bugis came along and also wanted some of it. There were little wars going on there for years. Complete keris from Lombok are very often a bit of a mix, and when not mixed, the blades will often show very peculiar interpretations of form.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2017, 10:40 AM   #14
Athanase
Member
 
Athanase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 403
Default

The blade of my keris a typical bugis straight blade. All in this Keris is Bugis style, except the handle.
This keris comes from an old French collection, collected in the middle of the 20th century (or before?, I have no more information).
Athanase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2017, 03:07 PM   #15
rasdan
Member
 
rasdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 367
Default

Thanks Athanase. Your hilt surely looks like the one I posted. Guess this type is very widespread throughout the archipelago.
rasdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2017, 03:40 PM   #16
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

I would second Alan's suggestion that the hilt on Athanase's keris is probably a Lombak form of the planar hilt. It has distinct differences from the hilts shown in both posts #6 & #7 which are definitely not Lombok.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.