A big butcher knife

Flavio · 21st March 2006, 07:18 PM

Hello this is arrived today and is still uncleaned, but i'm very inpatient to show you. On a book that ia have (Coltelli e pugnali. Zdenek Faktor) is attribuited to the Pathan of Afghanistan, but i know that this kind of swords are Khyber. Could someone illuminate me ?

Total lenght 70 cm. Thank you

ham · 21st March 2006, 07:29 PM

Flavio,

"Khyber" is what collectors call these weapons, it derives from the area the British encountered them, i.e. the Khyber Pass.
The majority clan of E. Afghanistan, at least during the Afghan Wars of the 19th century, was Pathan. Anthropologically speaking, they are distinguished by their language, Pashto, and are generally Sunni Muslims.

I have never known any Afghan who called these weapons Khyber knives, though there is a vast span of opinion regarding what the proper term actually is. Generally knowledgeable individuals there usually call it a "Salawar" after the region where it originated, was most commonly made, or perhaps was most used. I suspect this term is the oldest for it as Egerton refers to it as a "Salawar yatagan" in his mid-19th century research as well.

Ham

Flavio · 21st March 2006, 07:58 PM

Thank you Ham, for the exhaustive explanation

What do you think about age?

Lew · 21st March 2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Thank you Ham, for the exhausting explanation

What do you think about age?

Flavio

That is a nice one did it come with a scabbard? I would place it's age as late 19th century.

Lew

Flavio · 21st March 2006, 08:46 PM

No, Lew there is no scabbard. Thank you

ham · 21st March 2006, 09:10 PM

I agree with Lew, late 19th.

It didn't exhaust me, I hope it didn't exhaust you?!

Ham

Flavio · 21st March 2006, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

I agree with Lew, late 19th.

It didn't exhaust me, I hope it didn't exhaust you?!

Ham

Sorry Ham, of course i mean exhaustive

Thank you

ham · 22nd March 2006, 03:16 AM

Flavio, non importa- scherzando solamente. Mi piace giocare colle parole come Eco

Ham

Valjhun · 22nd March 2006, 07:21 AM

Ham SenSei,

Non sapevo che lei se la cavava anche coll'Italiano. Ossequi.

Flavio · 22nd March 2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

Ham SenSei,

Non sapevo che lei se la cavava anche coll'Italiano. Ossequi.

RAGAZZI SIETE TROPPO FORTI!!!!

CORDIALI SALUTI DALL'ITALIA

fernando · 22nd March 2006, 11:37 AM

Hi Flavio
is the grip made of wood or horn ?
fernando

Flavio · 22nd March 2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi Flavio
is the grip made of wood or horn ?
fernando

Hello Fernando, grip is made of horn.
Flavio

Valjhun · 22nd March 2006, 08:46 PM

A weee, Paesa',,,

Flavio, devo dire che hai una collezione proprio da urlo

Mi piace tanto come la tieni... Colgo l'occasione per chiederti come fai ad avere un arsenale del genere in appartamento con le leggi che corrono in Italia? Non molto tempo fa una nonnia di 90 anni fu arestata a trieste per posesso di due baionette che suo marito ha portato dal frone... beh roba da matti

Comunque, stammi bene!

Flavio · 22nd March 2006, 09:15 PM

Ciao Valjhun, hai un messaggio privato

Andrew · 22nd March 2006, 11:38 PM

English, please gentlemen.

Flavio · 22nd March 2006, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

English, please gentlemen.

Sorry

Andrew · 22nd March 2006, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Sorry

Nessun problema, Flavio.

[No problem]

Flavio · 23rd March 2006, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Nessun problema, Flavio.

[No problem]

Flavio · 23rd March 2006, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Hello this is arrived today and is still uncleaned,

And now is clean!!

not2sharp · 23rd March 2006, 11:25 PM

A very nice example.

n2s

Jim McDougall · 23rd March 2006, 11:39 PM

Getting back to the 'Khyber knife' .....
Ham,
Outstanding concise data on these interesting weapons, not at all exhausting!!

just precisely described.
I am extremely interested in the distinct lazy s type motif in lines near the top of the blade.....it seems I have seen this motif as far to the east as Laos and on some types of dha. Similar markings occur in a number of diverse regions on swords, and typically in this type of linear motif, although cannot recall ever seeing it on the 'Khybers'.
Any idea of possible meanings, associations etc. ?
All the best,
Jim

21st March 2006, 07:18 PM	#1
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	A big butcher knife Hello this is arrived today and is still uncleaned, but i'm very inpatient to show you. On a book that ia have (Coltelli e pugnali. Zdenek Faktor) is attribuited to the Pathan of Afghanistan, but i know that this kind of swords are Khyber. Could someone illuminate me ? Total lenght 70 cm. Thank you Attached Images

21st March 2006, 07:58 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you Ham, for the exhaustive explanation What do you think about age? Last edited by Flavio; 21st March 2006 at 09:17 PM.

21st March 2006, 07:29 PM	#2
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Flavio, "Khyber" is what collectors call these weapons, it derives from the area the British encountered them, i.e. the Khyber Pass. The majority clan of E. Afghanistan, at least during the Afghan Wars of the 19th century, was Pathan. Anthropologically speaking, they are distinguished by their language, Pashto, and are generally Sunni Muslims. I have never known any Afghan who called these weapons Khyber knives, though there is a vast span of opinion regarding what the proper term actually is. Generally knowledgeable individuals there usually call it a "Salawar" after the region where it originated, was most commonly made, or perhaps was most used. I suspect this term is the oldest for it as Egerton refers to it as a "Salawar yatagan" in his mid-19th century research as well. Ham

21st March 2006, 08:46 PM	#5
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	No, Lew there is no scabbard. Thank you

21st March 2006, 09:10 PM	#6
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	I agree with Lew, late 19th. It didn't exhaust me, I hope it didn't exhaust you?! Ham

22nd March 2006, 03:16 AM	#8
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Flavio, non importa- scherzando solamente. Mi piace giocare colle parole come Eco Ham

22nd March 2006, 07:21 AM	#9
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Ham SenSei, Non sapevo che lei se la cavava anche coll'Italiano. Ossequi.

22nd March 2006, 11:37 AM	#11
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	Hi Flavio is the grip made of wood or horn ? fernando

22nd March 2006, 08:46 PM	#13
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	A weee, Paesa',,, Flavio, devo dire che hai una collezione proprio da urlo Mi piace tanto come la tieni... Colgo l'occasione per chiederti come fai ad avere un arsenale del genere in appartamento con le leggi che corrono in Italia? Non molto tempo fa una nonnia di 90 anni fu arestata a trieste per posesso di due baionette che suo marito ha portato dal frone... beh roba da matti Comunque, stammi bene!

22nd March 2006, 09:15 PM	#14
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Ciao Valjhun, hai un messaggio privato

22nd March 2006, 11:38 PM	#15
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	English, please gentlemen.

23rd March 2006, 11:25 PM	#20
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	A very nice example. n2s

23rd March 2006, 11:39 PM	#21
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Getting back to the 'Khyber knife' ..... Ham, Outstanding concise data on these interesting weapons, not at all exhausting!! just precisely described. I am extremely interested in the distinct lazy s type motif in lines near the top of the blade.....it seems I have seen this motif as far to the east as Laos and on some types of dha. Similar markings occur in a number of diverse regions on swords, and typically in this type of linear motif, although cannot recall ever seeing it on the 'Khybers'. Any idea of possible meanings, associations etc. ? All the best, Jim