A very special 'tulwar'

[fernando]

Originally Posted by NavdeepBal

In the Punjab, this would be called a Khirch. Having practised Indian Swordfighting most of my life I can tell you that the bit close to the hilt is most likely used for blocking, a lot like how the Rajputs block, using the flick of the wrist to turn the other’s blade. It is also wrong to call this a tulwar because it’s “vaars”, or strikes, are very different from a tulwar’s.

So it would be a Sikh weapon, said (quoting) to be made up of thin, sharp iron rod with a handle at one end, very dangerous. It is used to pierce in the human body...

[Jens Nordlunde]

Fernando, I dont remember it to be sharp, the one I saw in Istanbul. Also I think it is of Europeand origin.

[ariel]

Roland,

French armored knights at Cressy and Agincourt would glumly disagree with your opinion.....:-)

[TVV]

Originally Posted by ariel

Roland,

French armored knights at Cressy and Agincourt would glumly disagree with your opinion.....:-)

From what I understand based on modern research the casualties that were a direct result of the longbow in both these battles have been highly exaggerated and somewhat of a myth. The French cavalry could not perform proper charges in these battles, mostly having to do with poor terrain and poor discipline/execution. However, it sounds a lot more heroic and romantic to credit the English longbowmen for the victory, as opposed to ascribe it to a muddy field.

The battle of Hattin and some of the Mongol campaigns provide better examples of battles where the bow and arrow played a more significant role, however in those instances the arrows were being shot at mail and not plate armor. Even lamellar armor, assuming it was made of steel/iron plates, has been proven to effectively stop composite bow arrows at short range, let alone long range.

[Victrix]

It may have been the knights’ horses which were more vulnerable to arrows. When Richard Lionheart marched along the coast in the Holy Land the knights would make sure they had the Mediterranean Sea on one side and cover by infantry on the other side. Instead of shooting the knights’ horses with their arrows, the native archers would shoot the footsoldiers who acted as a human shield. The footsoldiers wore padded clothing underneath their chainmail hauberks, and were soon trotting along looking like porcupines due to the many arrows attached to their protective clothing. This suggests that chainmail protects against arrows fired by composite bows at least, which is why the users wore them.

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by ariel

Roland,

French armored knights at Cressy and Agincourt would glumly disagree with your opinion.....:-)

Ariel,

it is exactly as TVV explained: "However, it sounds a lot more heroic and romantic to credit the English longbowmen for the victory, as opposed to ascribe it to a muddy field."

If we calculate a little bit, we have ~5000 english longbowmen, which were able to shoot 10-12 arrows per minute in fast firing mode. This makes 50000-60000 arrows per minute. A kind of hailstorm of arrows. And it is simply probable, that some of these arrows hit parts of the armor, which are not perfectly protected and especially the horses. As TVV said, without the deep mud and with much more dicipline, the english army would have been destroyed within half an hour.

Roland

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Fernando, I dont remember it to be sharp, the one I saw in Istanbul. Also I think it is of European origin.

Maybe the one in Istambul was a variation of the same device ?; or maybe the term "sharp" must be subject to interpretation...

[NavdeepBal]

Originally Posted by fernando

So it would be a Sikh weapon, said (quoting) to be made up of thin, sharp iron rod with a handle at one end, very dangerous. It is used to pierce in the human body...

It could also be from the Deccan. But a possibility of it being a Punjabi weapon is also very high, because two most common names for swords are still found in local Punjabi Lingo, Khirch and Tulwar. Khirch was very popular in Punjab, and this might jus be some variation although it is more of a rod rather than a blade.