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Old 21st July 2018, 09:38 AM   #1
Tim Simmons
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Smile Powder horn? gun experts

Having sold the bulk of my collection this is the first step back into the insane world of collecting. I have hopes for its origin. The points of interest for me are the style and way the beads are stitched. The hand made nails/pins and the phallic stopper. Any opinions? sellers pictures.
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Old 21st July 2018, 09:58 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
Having sold the bulk of my collection this is the first step back into the insane world of collecting. I have hopes for its origin. The points of interest for me are the style and way the beads are stitched. The hand made nails/pins and the phallic stopper. Any opinions? sellers pictures.

Hi Tim,
Would you believe that the insanity never leaves. It just lurks below the surface ready to bite you again when you are not looking!
The flask looks to have some age.....certainly not a recent "tourist" type IMHO. My guess would be African, and likely sub Sahara, Sahel. Hopefully someone can more accurately provide origin.
Nice interesting flask.
Stu
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Old 21st July 2018, 10:13 AM   #3
fernando
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Weird !
Not an old version of these typical water canteens ?
... of course not .

.
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Old 21st July 2018, 02:22 PM   #4
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Hi Tm

It's a disease. With no known cure. LOL

Interesting horn. I have no idea as to it's origin. At the moment, Stu's guess is probably as good as any.

The horn appears to have been scraped, but never polished. Probably no facilities to do so. Notice the crude, hand-made nails. The entire horn was probably made with a bare minimum of hand tools.
The rear flange, on the large end of the horn, with the two holes to attach a cord/strap: That type of rear attachement is what today's contemporary horn makers call a mid-18th Century style as made in Colonial America. Curious it turns up on this horn.

If you get a chance, get one of those long medical Q-Tips and run it around the inside of the horn to see if there is any traces of black powder.

Rick
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Old 21st July 2018, 05:40 PM   #5
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Thanks for the replies what made me go for it was largely the bead work very much in the style of the Plains native Americans? I might be able to add more when I have it. It certainly does not have the look of fake or aged up scrim horns.
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Old 22nd July 2018, 04:12 PM   #6
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This may have no relevance at all, but this horn is coming to me from Plymouth UK. Apart from the Plymouth Fathers, Plymouth has a long history of trade, passengers and importation from the USA including the slave trade. Could I be lucky?
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Old 22nd July 2018, 04:39 PM   #7
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You can see what got me here, although a double row of beads, but the method is the same.
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Old 22nd July 2018, 07:54 PM   #8
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Hi Tim,
You may well be correct regarding First Nation origin. I do not know enough about their "equipment", but the phallic shape is quite common among African tribes.
Stu
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Old 22nd July 2018, 08:46 PM   #9
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What, Stu ... no phallic arguments in Europe ? .
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Old 22nd July 2018, 08:56 PM   #10
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What, Stu ... no phallic arguments in Europe ? .

Court records probably show otherwise!!
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Old 23rd July 2018, 08:47 AM   #11
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Take care or you might see them everywhere.

Examples of the method of bead stitching. All pictures taken from AMNH data base. I cannot save the magnified image available on the AMNH web site but you can see what I am suggesting.
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Old 23rd July 2018, 10:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
...It certainly does not have the look of fake or aged up scrim horns.

I never thought this was a fake, but instead a different implement. It will be interesting to know the width of the pourer. My doubts were based on its apparently too wide opening for powder pouring purposes, where usually they are rather narrower, judging by my few examples ... and not only.
Butt i am fully ready to be wrong, though .

,
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